Hello, thankyou, suggestions

[drphill]

Hi, I have just stumbled on 0AD while using Linux Mint software manager.  What a cracking game.  The only Microsoft program I have missed since moving to Linux is AOE, and 0AD is better by far.  Well done, and thank you to all concerned.  I may even brush up my C++ and see if I might help out (once the weather here turns dull and and wet that is).  I program for a living, but have never done games so I may not be an asset.

I have some observations to add, which may be worth noting, or may be due to my lack of understanding of game control.  Please do not see these as criticism:

• Can I have a default 'mood' for created military units.  They are currently created as aggressive so I need to remember to reset their mood.
• 'Flee if attacked' should include 'hide in buildings'?
• Can I have groups of units (mainly for military).  Then I could order my cavalry out of a battle scrum without ordering all my infantry.  Currently area select gets them all then I need to shift--click to select them all.  Meanwhile they are dying.  A quick-select list box with names (1st battalion foot, second battalion horse) would enable me to quickly change orders.
• How easy would it be to set a mood for a group of military units.  'Attack nearby units and return' works fine, except when it breaks a formation (such as testudo).  It would be good if the entire testudo moved as a unit (maybe think of the mood as being that of the formation commander rather than the individual soldiers).

[sanderd17]

Most of the things you mention are moddable. So you should brush up your JS instead of C++ (the mod code is written in JS).

But you bring in some interesting points. Stances (of moods as you call them) need a better design. Currently, it's still rather unclear what a certain stance does. But having a default stance per building does sound useful and not too difficult to implement.

The flee behavior will be a bit more difficult to implement gameplay wise, f.e. some player might not care about some workers, but wants to garrison a tower with archers. Then having females automatically garrison in the tower might make an annoying game.

Having groups of units is already possible, just check the shortcuts mentioned in the in-game manual.

I don't really see what you want with the stance for a group of units, but formations have seen a lot of attempts to fix them, and they're still not very good.

[IberianJavelinMan]

I also find default agressive stance annoying, agressive soldiers are kind of suicidal often following units to the enemy's CC I had the same feelings when I used to play AOE 2.
 

[drphill]

1 hour ago, sanderd17 said:

Most of the things you mention are moddable. So you should brush up your JS instead of C++ (the mod code is written in JS).

I can do JS, not my forte but I have done some.  It will likely be a winter time endeavour though.  First 'task' is beating the AI on more difficult levels with various factions. Second 'task' is learning multiplayer. (Fun first, serious third;-)

1 hour ago, sanderd17 said:

The flee behavior will be a bit more difficult to implement gameplay wise, f.e. some player might not care about some workers, but wants to garrison a tower with archers. Then having females automatically garrison in the tower might make an annoying game.

Good point..  Maybe civilians would not auto-garrison in military buildings? What archers? I have been playing roman..... and what roman soldier would refuse to shelter a civilian woman.

1 hour ago, sanderd17 said:

Having groups of units is already possible, just check the shortcuts mentioned in the in-game manual.

I will, thanks.

1 hour ago, sanderd17 said:

I don't really see what you want with the stance for a group of units, but formations have seen a lot of attempts to fix them, and they're still not very good.

A formation acting as a unit would be more manageable.  I like testudos for their being 'relatively immune to missile fire' (IIRC).  Having the front ranks break formation as an enemy approaches is a bad idea.  Having the entire testudo move forward would be much better.  So for some formations/factions/civilisation-level such discipline would be a major asset.  [[Maybe there would be a tension between the formation rules and the individual moods that would make an added dimension - more experienced troops would be more obedient?]]

I do not like the way that battles rapidly degenerate into brawls with me as a mostly helpless spectator. Nor do I want to micro manage every infantryman.

1 hour ago, IberianJavelinMan said:

I also find default agressive stance annoying, agressive soldiers are kind of suicidal often following units to the enemy's CC I had the same feelings when I used to play AOE 2.
 

Thanks I am glad that I am not alone in thinking this.

[sanderd17]

The formation as a single attacking entity has seen an attempt to implement it in the past. And remains of that can still be seen throughout the code.

But there were multiple strange side effects with routing and economy tasks. Combined with changes to the pathfinder. So that was kinda reverted to the old state, and is rather broken now.

So working on that will be very difficult, and will require you to have a thorough knowledge on the entire codebase (routing, UnitAI, ...). Not something for a beginner to work on.

[drphill]

@sanderd17 I guess any software system gains history, and some of these concepts (expressed in natural, vague language) are bound to be difficult to implement in unambiguous code language.

That it has been attempted before does not surprise me - shows it is wanted.  That it should have failed indicates the complexities of which I am still blissfully unaware. Maybe the solution would sidestep the economy task impact by making the formation-as-a-unit only available to hero-level troops (which do not engage in economic activity?) .  That might have implications for the UI though..... no I do not want to get into solutionising here.

As a newbie, though, I would not start there.  I would float a list of suggestions and take advice which to start on, and how.  That would likely be the quickest route into the code.  But that is for the future - personal coding is done in the cold wet dark season.  For now I want to play the game and maybe get a feel for its underlying patterns. 

[GunChleoc]

There is a special category in Trac for tickets that can be tackled by new developers https://trac.wildfiregames.com/report/16

Edited April 23, 2017 by sanderd17
Shorter URL

[drphill]

1 hour ago, GunChleoc said:

There is a special category in Trac for tickets that can be tackled by new developers https://trac.wildfiregames.com/report/16

You are just trying to make easy now, aren't you.  No fooling me.... ;-P

[GunChleoc]

*dangles carrot in front of drphill's nose*

Come on, you know you want to

Edited April 25, 2017 by GunChleoc

[leper]

Nah, making it easy would be linking to the Getting Started Programmers wiki page too.

[drphill]

Thankyou @GunChleoc, @leper.  But I wont have the attention span while the weather is good enough to be outdoors.  Best I learn the game and its ethos first anyway - it is a long time since I played anything similar.  Cant have a developer who cannot play the game.

 

I was playing as roman again and could not find how to access some of the features.  This may be because they are not implemented yet and if that is the case then no problem, but if I am missing some trick/technique then maybe others are missing it too.

https://play0ad.com/game-info/factions/

"Special Techs or Bonuses: Roman Logistics (Army Camps and Siege Walls no longer decay), Sibylline Books (greater vision for units and buildings), Marian Reforms (unlock the Marian Legionnaire), Testudo Formation (a slow formation that is nearly impervious to ranged attacks), Citizenship (armor bonus for fighting in home territory), Socii (allies gain armor bonuses when fighting in Roman territory)."

I found Sibylline books, but no logistics, no marian reforms.  Nor did my temple prevent my buildings being captured.

Oh, and I laboured mightily to create a wonder and then activated its special.  I got a 50 bod boost in population max, and felt underwhelmed.  Maybe it becomes important when I get better at playing.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

I found Sibylline books, but no logistics, no marian reforms.  Nor did my temple prevent my buildings being captured.

No implemented yet. You can prevent that garrisoning units in your buildings.

[drphill]

3 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

No implemented yet. You can prevent that garrisoning units in your buildings.

Thanks, @Lion.Kanzen. I suspected this was a 'not yet implemented' but wanted to check.  I have found the 'garrison troops to prevent capture' but it is a pain when I want to ungarrison in a hurry.  I need to garrison 4 and 1 so I can ungarrison the four quickly.  Never mind, nothing is perfect and I am enjoying the game as-is.

[leper]

38 minutes ago, drphill said:

Cant have a developer who cannot play the game.

You'd be surprised if you knew more

[Lion.Kanzen]

You can press ungarrison button in middle panel, the unit will be ejected.

[LordGood]

3 hours ago, drphill said:

Cant have a developer who cannot play the game.

Apparently you've never seen me play! hahaha

[GunChleoc]

There is a difference between being able to play the game and being able to play it well. Unless you do a lot of balancing/gameplay design etc, it doesn't matter it the sandbox AI pwns you as long as you understand how everything works

Edited April 27, 2017 by GunChleoc

[Servo]

I have difficulty in moving group of units in a very short distance and facing correctly or say just face the units between from 0 position(initial) to any direction. I'm not aware nor using much hotkeys but in most games I played before you can just highlight the units and drag the mouse arrow towards desired direction. Not implemented yet?

[Imarok]

I think units dont habe a back and front.(simulation-wise)