Victory Conditions Ideas

[DarcReaver]

Maybe the concept could be more like a "domination" gameplay type. The wagons (or maybe temples/wonders?) are on the map, can be captured and decrease the enemie's timer until it reaches zero. Like

3 wonders on the map

take all 3 - enemy team looses 3 ticks per ... idk 10 seconds
take only 2 - enemy team looses 2 ticks
own team has 2 and enemy has 1, enemy looses 1 tick per 10 seconds

However, unless you'd make it the "default" game mode I wouldn't put much effort in this, because most ppl play annihilation/conquest anyways in multiplayer.

[jkufner]

because most ppl play annihilation/conquest anyways in multiplayer.

That is why the timer should be short. Once player looses his relic, he should be screwed. The timer should be there to avoid short glitches when oponent has nothing and just sneaks there — for such cases there should be some time for retribution.

When I played some wonder game modes back in Age of Empires, the influence of the wonder was so small and timer so long, that after my wonder was built I got bored and wiped the oponent anyway. That is why ppl don't play these modes.

On the other hand, we often played regicide mode, because there was one simple task to do. No hunting for a last peson in a forest. No waiting for meaningless timer. Just go there and kill the target.

[Lion.Kanzen]

@jkufner is difficult capture the relic and you can setting the time in the GUI.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

44 minutes ago, jkufner said:

When I played some wonder game modes back in Age of Empires, the influence of the wonder was so small and timer so long, that after my wonder was built I got bored and wiped the oponent anyway. That is why ppl don't play these modes.

 

Haha yeah, I think the timer options should be reduced, for both Wonder and Relic victories. Maybe from just 1 to 10 minutes. Add 15 and 20 minute options for those who are masochists. Certainly, 120 minutes is, uh, laughable. lol

 

Here's mine:

 

{
    "Times": [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 15, 20],
    "Default": 5
}
 

Edited March 26, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[elexis]

You can set the countdown in the matchsettings, even set it to 0.

As mentioned in the ticket and post above, there are some more things planned. Players could be able to set 1 to 8 relics.

The relic cannot be destroyed. The same issue with some units trying to attack invincible units applies to invincible units that are focused when attacking, for example while Promotion or with the treasure seeker woman on survival of the fittest.

AI support already has a work-in-progress patch (D236).

[elexis]

Indeed I don't think 120 minutes is a realistic option, but I do think people should be able to chose whatever value they want. For example if someone really wants to try for 2 hours to defeat the enemy before the timer runs out but still having the opportunity to end the game automatically in case there is no decision on the battlefield.

Also it is planned to allow combining victory conditions (somewhere mentioned in this thread long ago iirc).

So you could be able to play regicide + conquest + wonder victory + relic victory all in one game.

[jkufner]

Indeed I don't think 120 minutes is a realistic option, but I do think people should be able to chose whatever value they want.

There is psychological aspect of this. If you set boundaries to 0–20 minutes, people will assume that 20 minutes is a long game. If you set boundaries to 0–120 minutes, people will assume the game is meant to last long, therefore there is not enough time to play it at all. Therefore, the availability of a long timer actually causes damage.

[Lion.Kanzen]

The AOE I  the relics mode consists in 300 years(5min)

[Palaiogos]

On December 30, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Dade said:

I am a bit late but here goes my 2 cents. It's a game-mode/victory condition from the great Company of Heroes saga.

Victory Points Condition

• Each map should have at least 3 Victory Points positions, which every player/team can capture
• When a player have more VPs than the other, his opponent looses points (usually starting at 500)

Here is a random discussion on gamereplays.org about the differences between VPs Condition and Annihilation (our actual and more used game mode in MP).

Wasn't victory points the reason why people got extremely mad at Total War Rome 2? I believe it lessens strategy and should only be used in very certain scenarios. Like in a campaign: capture the city. That is the only time, capture/victory points are acceptable.

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 minutes ago, Palaiogos said:

Wasn't victory points the reason why people got extremely mad at Total War Rome 2? I believe it lessens strategy and should only be used in very certain scenarios. Like in a campaign: capture the city. That is the only time, capture/victory points are acceptable.

The capture points flags was big deal in  vanilla without patches RTW2.

 https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/89244/how-to-fix-victory-points

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

12 hours ago, elexis said:

Indeed I don't think 120 minutes is a realistic option, but I do think people should be able to chose whatever value they want.

I understand this, I do. But in the end, as designer you "guide" the player to the gameplay you want for the game by making design decisions. It's fine though, not a big deal. Maybe 60 minutes would be a good upper limit though, instead of 120 and my 20.  

 

12 hours ago, elexis said:

Also it is planned to allow combining victory conditions (somewhere mentioned in this thread long ago iirc).

So you could be able to play regicide + conquest + wonder victory + relic victory all in one game.

This would be awesome. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, Palaiogos said:

Wasn't victory points the reason why people got extremely mad at Total War Rome 2? I believe it lessens strategy and should only be used in very certain scenarios. Like in a campaign: capture the city. That is the only time, capture/victory points are acceptable.

I think it would be just like the Wonder victory as far as coding goes. Just extend it to be able to be added to any template, this case a flag object , then add the options in the UI and AI.

[Libervurto]

Would it be fun to have optional random victory conditions secretly assigned to each player?  Like in Risk.  Then you would have to try and work out which victory your opponent is going for and shut them down while going for your own victory.

Some more victory condition ideas:

• Population exceeds X
• Resources exceed X
• Build X Civic Centers

We could even have some silly ones for fun:

• Survive for X minutes without progressing from the village phase
• Breed X hundred sheep
• Let your enemies destroy X of your buildings

[Lion.Kanzen]

Controlling map but based in points, you start a village to build city, you need expand over all map with building and you have bonus if you have houses all together , civic building together , same with military and bonus for defense and wall.

the winner the guy can construct an empire in 2/3 of map. The battles must be declared each 14 minutes and the rest is economic and peace.

 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Basically, a map control percentage victory condition.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Standard condition.

• destroying all building
• wonder victory allowed
• relic victory allowed

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think the coolest and most comprehensive way to do victory conditions would be, as @elexis mentioned, to have a list of different conditions and let the host select them with a check box. That way, you can have multiple routes to victory if desired. Can maybe allow the players to create presets too, although if there are, say, less than 20 possible conditions then presets may not be necessary.

 

1. Kill or Capture All Enemy Units and Buildings
2. Kill or Capture All Enemy Units
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
3. Kill All Enemy Heroes
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
4. Destroy or Capture All Enemy Buildings
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
5. Destroy or Capture All Enemy Civic Centers
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
6. Capture All Mercenary Camps
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
7. Wonder Victory
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
8. Score Victory
   • Choose Score Amount
   • Team score or individual score
9. Capture and Hold All Relics
   • Immediate Victory or Timer
10. Map Control Percentage
    • Choose Percentage
    • Immediate Victory or Timer
11. Population Race
    • Choose Population Amount
    • Immediate Victory or Timer
12. Technology Race
13. Phase Race

 

Game host checkmarks all the victory conditions she wants.

 

Other things, like Capture the Flag and Deathmatch and King of the Hill are game modes to me, not victory conditions in themselves, though a couple of them might come with their own custom victory condition. Victory Conditions can be applied to nearly any style of map, while Game Modes might have other variables that prevent application to all maps. I'll start a game mode thread.

Edited May 29, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Score can have plenty variants.

• defeating last in the list to have last man standing, every (x) minutes the bottom in the list is erased.(music charts)
• first to reach (x) points
• team score reach (x)
• team score ( music chairs) 

other must be population race.

other phase race.

techonolgy race.

 

Capture the flag....that can be nice add on a interesting version of  this should be capture flag in the central plaza.( like Rome Total War) even capture flag in many important spots of a big city.

Control spots is another variant.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

53 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Capture the flag....that can be nice add on a interesting version of  this should be capture flag in the central plaza.( like Rome Total War) even capture flag in many important spots of a big city.

Control spots is another variant.

These are game modes, IMHO. They have unique victory conditions, but is more of a game mode, unless you want the flag placement to be random, like the catafalque placement for Capture the Relic, then I guess it could be on this list.

[jkufner]

Every option is designer's failure to make it right.

Imagine, you want to play a game, you don't know much about the rules, you just want to play. So you start a game and screen with 20 options appears. Now what? Should you check this one or that one? Is it better to play for 30% or 80% of something? How long the timer should be? Try to answer these with only basic knowledge of the game.

The game should provide only few options without unnecessary details. If the victory condition should be "control majority of land", then you as the developer or game designer, should figure out what "majority" means and how much it is for the best game play. If there is a timer, you should test how much time is needed to save the day. Don't be lazy, don't leave it to users.

For advanced players and developers, there should be a custom mode with all options available. You, as the developers, will need theese options to test the game. But these options should be hidden behind an "advanced options" button, configuration file, or something like that.

From the implementation point of view, it is a very good idea to keep all these values as configurable parameters. Even better is to keep them in a separate file (one file per game profile/mode; presets are loaded from two directories - game defaults and user's profile) which can be easily shared and discussed between developers/players. This way you can avoid the "advanced button" as you can edit/create a config file with many many parameters and tune them over time and switch between the files/profiles easily.

[soloooy0]

and is posible restriction game normal in more wars 

no wonders and no walls?

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

17 hours ago, jkufner said:

Every option is designer's failure to make it right.

Imagine, you want to play a game, you don't know much about the rules, you just want to play. So you start a game and screen with 20 options appears. Now what? Should you check this one or that one? Is it better to play for 30% or 80% of something? How long the timer should be? Try to answer these with only basic knowledge of the game.

The game should provide only few options without unnecessary details. If the victory condition should be "control majority of land", then you as the developer or game designer, should figure out what "majority" means and how much it is for the best game play. If there is a timer, you should test how much time is needed to save the day. Don't be lazy, don't leave it to users.

For advanced players and developers, there should be a custom mode with all options available. You, as the developers, will need theese options to test the game. But these options should be hidden behind an "advanced options" button, configuration file, or something like that.

From the implementation point of view, it is a very good idea to keep all these values as configurable parameters. Even better is to keep them in a separate file (one file per game profile/mode; presets are loaded from two directories - game defaults and user's profile) which can be easily shared and discussed between developers/players. This way you can avoid the "advanced button" as you can edit/create a config file with many many parameters and tune them over time and switch between the files/profiles easily.

You already answered your concerns when you suggested an "Advanced Options" toggle. The team can decide which victory conditions are the "default" and then let more advanced players adjust these if they want.

[borg-]

Expansion gamemode.

Whoever has the greatest number of territory in a determined time, win the game

I do not know if anyone has already proposed this.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 5/29/2017 at 11:52 PM, borg- said:

Expansion gamemode.

Whoever has the greatest number of territory in a determined time, win the game

I do not know if anyone has already proposed this.

That's pretty much this "Map Control Percentage"