Civ: Thebans

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The Theban Greeks

 

 

 

Spoiler

These guys are from the Greece city-state of Thebes at the height of their powers in the 4th century BC.

Summary

The great power of Central Greece and leader of the Boeotian confederacy, Thebes is a force to be reckoned with. It is a major rival of ancient Athens, and sided with the Persians during the 480 BC invasion under Xerxes. Theban forces ended the power of Sparta at the Battle of Leuctra in 371 BC under the command of Epaminondas. The Sacred Band of Thebes (an elite military unit) famously fell at the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC against Philip II and Alexander the Great. Prior to its destruction by Alexander in 335 BC, Thebes was a major force in Greek history, and was the most dominant city-state at the time of the Macedonian conquest of Greece.

Team Bonus

Boeotian Confederacy

• Undecided at this time.

Civ Bonuses and Features

Oblique Order

• An extra deep phalanx that give large charge bonus (cannot be implement yet)

Siege of Delion

• Thebans has access to Fire Raiser siege weapon, which kill units and building equally good, but can cause friendly fire damage.

Hellenization

• Build a Theatron and expand territory by 20%.

Greek Armory

• Thebans use the Greek set of armory techs for powerful spearmen and good armor for units.

Some Unique Technologies

Oracle of Delphi

• Historically, the Boeotians controlled the religiously important site of Delphi. The oracle at Delphi was the priestess of Apollo. She was tasked with uttering prophecies and answers to queries to the god. Delphi was the most sacred sanctuary in Greece and the 2nd oldest, Dodona in Epirus, dedicated to Zeus, being the oldest.
• All units and building +10% vision range.

Boeotarch

• The Boeotarchs were a council of 10 elected magistrates or generals, similar in power and responsibility to the 'strategoi' of Athens.
• Heroes +25% health.

Heroes

Epaminondas

• Leader, statesman, and general of the Boeotian city-state Thebes during its moment of ascendancy during the middle decades of the 4th century BC.
• "Alliance Builder" aura: Allied buildings construct +25% faster while he lives.

Pelopidas

• Pelopidas (died 364 BC) was an important Theban statesman and general in Greece. He led the Theban Sacred Band to defeat a much larger Spartan force early in his career. Later he accompanied his friend and co-Boeotarch, Epaminondas, in defeating the Spartans at the Battle of Leuktra using the novel Oblique Order phalanx formation, focusing their forces on one part of the Spartan line in order to break it and route the rest of the enemy army. At the end of his life, Pelopidas was called upon by the towns of Thessaly to protect them against the rising ambitions of Alexander of Pharae. He managed to defeat Alexander, but in his haste to strike the final blow on Alexander, Pelopidas was himself slain.
• "Oblique Order" aura: Sacred Band champions and Boeotian Hoplites +20% attack and +20% speed within his formation.

Gorgidas

• Gorgidas was the first known Theban military leader of the Sacred Band of Thebes around 378 BC. Plutarch in his Life of Pelopidas credits Gorgidas with the creation of the Sacred Band, which he dispersed at first throughout the front ranks of the regular infantry, with the idea that they would inspire valour; however they were later arrayed by Pelopidas as a unit in order to make their gallantry more conspicuous.
• "Strength" aura: All units within sight of him +20% health.

Units

Sacred Band Hoplite

• Champion Spear Infantry (Hoplite-style)

Thespian Black Cloak

• Champion Sword Infantry

Fire Raiser

• Siege Weapon

Special Buildings

Theatron

• Greek theaters were places where the immortal tragedies of Aeschylus, Sophocles and many other talented dramatists were staged to the delight of the populace. They were instrumental in enriching Hellenic culture.
• Gives access to the Hellenization civ bonus. Building a Theatron increases the territory effect of all buildings by 20%.

Siege Workshop

• At the siege of the Athenian fortress at Delium, the Thebans employed what may be deemed the first recorded use of a flame thrower in warfare, the Fire Raiser.
• Construct siege weapons for Thebes.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wackyserious]

Did someone already ported this faction as a mod for the standard game? I am also interested in having a Theban faction mod that works as a standard faction for the game.

IIRC, there was a repository names thebans before? Was there? I cannot really remember.

[asterix]

7 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Did someone already ported this faction as a mod for the standard game? I am also interested in having a Theban faction mod that works as a standard faction for the game.

IIRC, there was a repository names thebans before? Was there? I cannot really remember.

No, I tried to but with no luck.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, asterix said:

No, I tried to but with no luck.

This faction is very older inside the game. Probably since A11. 

Never was complete.  May be in devs forum you can see something.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Did someone already ported this faction as a mod for the standard game? I am also interested in having a Theban faction mod that works as a standard faction for the game.

IIRC, there was a repository names thebans before? Was there? I cannot really remember.

 

1 hour ago, asterix said:

No, I tried to but with no luck.

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

This faction is very older inside the game. Probably since A11. 

Never was complete.  May be in devs forum you can see something.

You guys are in luck. I just spent like 4 hours getting this ship shape for you:

 

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/theban_greeks

SVN compatibility only. Does not work with Alpha 23. Enjoy the choice!

Edited August 4, 2019 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Yes, you were some of guys to help with original faction of Thebans.

[Nescio]

On 10/9/2015 at 7:21 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Oracle of Delphi

• Historically, the Boeotians controlled the religiously important site of Delphi. The oracle at Delphi was the priestess of Apollo. She was tasked with uttering prophecies and answers to queries to the god. Delphi was the most sacred sanctuary in Greece and the 2nd oldest, Dodona in Epirus, dedicated to Zeus, being the oldest.

Actually they never did. Perhaps you confused them with the neighbouring Phocians? There was a famous oracle of Trophonius at Lebadeia in Boeotia, though.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

One thing I might recommend is to give them a champion cavalry unit.  Boetians were some of the few Greek peoples known to field a respectable cavalry force if I am not mistaken.  Either that or perhaps the confederacy bonus could have something to do with that.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, Nescio said:

Actually they never did. Perhaps you confused them with the neighbouring Phocians? There was a famous oracle of Trophonius at Lebadeia in Boeotia, though.

In DE, originally all the Greek civs received the Oracle of Delphi technology, but then I realized Thebans weren't different enough from the others so I gave it to them exclusively and tried to make it "fit" for them. I can easily change it to your suggestion. Thanks!

Would you be willing to give proper SpecificNames for the units? 

 

 

[wackyserious]

We forked 0ad compatible theban civ in 0admods by the way, https://github.com/0ADMods/theban_greeks

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

13 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

We forked 0ad compatible theban civ in 0admods by the way, https://github.com/0ADMods/theban_greeks

Okay, have fun! It's yours now.  I updated some stuff 3 hours ago. No idea what you need to do.

Edited August 4, 2019 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Nescio]

12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

In DE, originally all the Greek civs received the Oracle of Delphi technology, but then I realized Thebans weren't different enough from the others so I gave it to them exclusively and tried to make it "fit" for them.

Not quite sure what you mean, but I suppose you know what you're doing.

12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Would you be willing to give proper SpecificNames for the units? 

Which ones specifically?

[fatherbushido]

12 hours ago, wackyserious said:

We forked 0ad [...]

Yeah ;-)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

I wonder how accurate this map of the ancient city is. Looking at Thevai in Google Maps I can vaguely make out the Cadmeia. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

 

I wonder how accurate this map of the ancient city is. Looking at Thevai in Google Maps I can vaguely make out the Cadmeia. 

inverse research.

This map, which was created in 1909, serves as a geographical representation of the land of Thebes, which is the epicenter of Ovid's Metamorphoses and Greek Mythology.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

Theban wonder =  Cadmean Citadel.

[Stan`]

Which part of it?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

54 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Which part of it?

Blue part, but the sides of the platform like the yellow. With some prop points for some tree actors, etc.

It would all sit on a platform with not very high walls, but rough, geometric blocks. Its footprint would be somewhat "teardrop" shaped, not perfectly rectangle, as shown in the old archaeological maps:

 

Walls and rocky base:

(nevermind the high bit in the back)

Not nearly as tall as the Acropolis in Athens. More like a low rocky hill or plateau that the ancient Thebans cleared off and hewed and flattened over time. There they placed temples and civic buildings. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Carltonus]

Promising wonder. The smaller temple like structures may not be necessary though; the big one temple, platform, and stairs are enough.

Also, if Pagondas be the fourth hero, the Sacred Band hoplite ought to be replaced with a Thespian, "epilektos"-like, or city guard hoplite. Inspiration from Victrix miniatures:

If Cassander be fifth, the citizen and champion hoplites (as well as the Thespian) should be generic hypaspists and agema. These may not look like Sacred Band hoplites, but it can be a good start for the Thespian replacement (substitute helmets with Hellenistic-era ones?):

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Carltonus

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

23 minutes ago, Carltonus said:

Promising wonder. The smaller temple like structures may not be necessary though; the big one, temple, platform, and stairs are enough.

 

I'm thinking leave off the 2 smaller structure on the right, but keeping the 2 smaller ones on the left, plus a larger temple and stairs of course.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Quick mockup ideas for the Cadmean Citadel (Wonder): 

 

[Darkcity]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone, Just 1 request, can we add different terrain on wonder border? The purpose of that will be

1. Building will look stand-along and distinguished.
2. People can't squeze in other buidlding near wonder.
3. Units can still walk on that terrain.

Whole point is the platform on which wonder is built should be distinguished, and units can walk on them but you can't build there as its part of building. Soomething like that. I hope you got the idea. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 hours ago, Darkcity said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone, Just 1 request, can we add different terrain on wonder border? The purpose of that will be

1. Building will look stand-along and distinguished.
2. People can't squeze in other buidlding near wonder.
3. Units can still walk on that terrain.

Whole point is the platform on which wonder is built should be distinguished, and units can walk on them but you can't build there as its part of building. Soomething like that. I hope you got the idea. 

you say walk in wonder?

 

[Darkcity]

No through it. but sideways. Example wonder dimension is 40x40 some units. then for 5 units each side wonder should have walkways which will be differnet from how ground terrain looks. 

It will distinguish the building thats all.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The reason the Cadmean Citadel would have a platform is because the citadel was a small acropolis. I do understand what you're saying about making all the wonders more prominent, but we don't want to make their footprints larger than they already are.