Forest Plantation

[Romulus]

Like farms, suppose we can plant forests with a diverse range of seed, once forests become barren.

But trees have to take a long time to grow, otherwise this will be unrealistic.

[Lion.Kanzen]

for now the lag isn't good idea. but Berrie Bushes are right.

[Romulus]

for now the lag isn't good idea. but Berrie Bushes are right.

Well for now with the current lag, this is a big no,no haha

But maybe close to release, it would be nice to see us able to plant things too.

But I can see what would happen here..... the AI planting trees right on their CC like those darn farms :|

I changed my mind, no planting!

[RoekeloosNL]

Well for now with the current lag, this is a big no,no haha

But maybe close to release, it would be nice to see us able to plant things too.

But I can see what would happen here..... the AI planting trees right on their CC like those darn farms :|

I changed my mind, no plant

AI can be scripted you know or there can be a trigger or somthing added on the CC so they cant plant in that trigger.

[Romulus]

AI can be scripted you know or there can be a trigger or somthing added on the CC so they cant plant in that trigger.

I was accused in The Centurion thread, for starting this topic as if I was being contradicting lol

No. This seems to be a good idea, but only if its done right.

But it should be a gaia process that takes a long @#$% time to grow. Otherwise yeah unrealistic. No go.

[Shield Bearer]

It takes years to form an army, yet we can do it in 30 minutes in the game

[Romulus]

It takes years to form an army, yet we can do it in 30 minutes in the game

Yes I know. So trees can take 3 hours in the game

[sanderd17]

Yes I know. So trees can take 3 hours in the game

With few games taking longer than 1 hour, I think it's really worth the programming and art effort to achieve this

[feneur]

Most matches should be over well before 3 hours. I don't mean that the game shouldn't be possible to play for 3 hours or more, just that it's not a priority to implement something that will not be seen in most games. Also, I haven't really seen any convincing arguments why this would be a good idea/improve gameplay, or even be realistic. I can't say I'm an expert, but I don't know any examples of any significant forest plantation in this era. Rather the opposite, though most of the deforestation might have been before the game's time period.

[Romulus]

With few games taking longer than 1 hour, I think it's really worth the programming and art effort to achieve this

Ok so I was maybe out...

How about 59 minutes?

Most matches should be over well before 3 hours. I don't mean that the game shouldn't be possible to play for 3 hours or more, just that it's not a priority to implement something that will not be seen in most games. Also, I haven't really seen any convincing arguments why this would be a good idea/improve gameplay, or even be realistic. I can't say I'm an expert, but I don't know any examples of any significant forest plantation in this era. Rather the opposite, though most of the deforestation might have been before the game's time period.

Yeah, which is I said a Gaia mechanic.

Gaia automatically grows trees after long periods of time.

Okay let me be honest and tell you why I had this idea...

Think of AOE days... I love keep the match going on forever. I'm just like that... I love to maintain a game and keep it from ending.

But in AOE you get those times where look at the deforestation, and land been stripped of everything that was on it, and you think... Man... Its a shame.

How nice if you could see the trees grow back and animals respawn... (Specially the fish for the love of christ) but you always feel "darn" that sadness that there's nothing more but barren land. Kills the game...

Imagine a game that lives like nature....... Think about it

[feneur]

Imagine a game that lives like nature....... Think about it

0 A.D. is a game of war, not of admiring nature, think about that (I'll elaborate a bit more in the infinite farming thread)

[Romulus]

0 A.D. is a game of war, not of admiring nature

Then why does 0 A.D. look so beautiful?

/me thinks you lying

[feneur]

Primary purpose is not the same as only purpose

[Leroy30]

In stronghold the trees seed and grow slowly and the animals have babies that grow as well. Stronghold was my all time favourite. To people like my the little details matter.

I love collecting resources, building an empire and a castle that looks good as well as functions good. Building something great and keeping it all looking amazing is half the fun.

[leko8731]

Hi there,

excuse my bad English and for jumping in.

Replanting trees should not be a problem, just prepare a square plantation, grow trees in minutes, restart the same when all cut, eventually coupled with a sawmill.

Most games where trees are a resource, planting and harvesting is normal.  Also wildlife can return in this plantation.   You do not want trees, do not grow them, but it should be possible.  The argument 3 hour game means there is only quick shootout and finished.   Believe me real battles take much, much longer.  Maybe the battlegrounds are to small, oponents to close to each other, making real strategy impossible.  I remember command an conquer, ennemies running with starting units strait to me without recce in full fog.  Strategy is preparing ambushes, do the unpredictable, hide your intentions, short : YOU NEED BRAINS. 

Remember the first american attack on Irak, effective in 3 days, stopped by government ----------- Second time, other General, half-effective after more than 3 months, debacle after years.  Same armies but 1 General with a good Strategy, the second one with none.

Several ellaborated wargames reflect real combat, you can never finish a campaign in 3 hours.   As former Leopard Tank Commander I state : rushing a massive attack against a prepared ennemy will cost many lives and a lot of lost material.  A slight advantage in terrain can have great influence. 

Greetings

 

[Grautvornix]

Hi there,

I would second that - within the game, planting trees in an area can be a little element of strategy and not just serve to making this really beautiful game even more beautiful: Trees could be used as a kind of barrier to siege engines if planted right (may need some micro management though). Sieges can not break through and the barrier can only be removed by citizens chopping wood.

Also establishing new buildings can be blocked (the area would need to be cleared first).

For this to work  trees need to be "plantable" in a free area and not on a plantation that can be destroyed. (The principle is something many were using in the past when playing settlers 3 to block the adversary from establishing buildings nearby own borders...)

I know this would be modifying the game quite a bit. Just saying...

[Stan`]

Actually not that much you just need to add trees to the list of buildable entities.

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

planting trees in an area can be a little element of strategy and not just serve to making this really beautiful game even more beautiful: Trees could be used as a kind of barrier to siege engines if planted right (may need some micro management though). Sieges can not break through and the barrier can only be removed by citizens chopping wood.

 

I never thought of it, but you're totally right. 

I think this is actually a reason against implementing this, though. If trees served as a wall that could only be penetrated by cutting them down then it would be impossible to ever destroy buildings. Imagine a fully garrisoned CC that is surrounded by a few layers of trees. The arrows from the CC would knock any wood choppers off task and therefore make it impossible to cut the trees down. Civs that rely on rams therefore would be unable to ever penetrate the tree wall. 

[Grautvornix]

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

I never thought of it, but you're totally right. 

I think this is actually a reason against implementing this, though. If trees served as a wall that could only be penetrated by cutting them down then it would be impossible to ever destroy buildings. Imagine a fully garrisoned CC that is surrounded by a few layers of trees. The arrows from the CC would knock any wood choppers off task and therefore make it impossible to cut the trees down. Civs that rely on rams therefore would be unable to ever penetrate the tree wall. 

Thanks - you are absolutely right! This would only work with another set of complicated rules when and where trees can be actually planted. Just thought about their potential use at the borders.

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

Thanks - you are absolutely right! This would only work with another set of complicated rules when and where trees can be actually planted. Just thought about their potential use at the borders.

Yeah, even then there is a similar problem with forts and towers.
 

And k agree—there would need to be a rule where you’re only allowed to plant so much in a row or something like that

[Grapjas]

3 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

And k agree—there would need to be a rule where you’re only allowed to plant so much in a row or something like that

Could also make a rule that it needs to be a minimal X range from a CC.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Grapjas

[chrstgtr]

23 minutes ago, Grapjas said:

Could also make a rule that it needs to be a minimal X range from a CC.

Probably also necessary. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

In ancient times, trees were only planted to decorate places.

[Darkcity]

Few simple suggetion.

1. Only a forest will regrow. Example if you cut a tree in a forest/group of more than 50 trees then it can regrow, but not a group 10 trees found near cc. This solves problem of trees spawned near cc.
2. Bushes shouldn't be allowed to regow, only tress with >= 200 wood can regrow. This will resolve problem of random bushes in the map.
3. Trees can't regrow where building is built. (Too obvious) 
4. You can build in area untill tree is fully spawned. Example, If it takes 20min to growback and u make builidng at min 19; that tree is gone.
5. We can also add rule that @Grapjas suggested that, x range of cc tree won't regrow. Useful for nomad gameplays. 

OP suggestion:
Make builidng anywhere, if there are few trees they will get destroyed, although you can't build if building base covers group of trees>10.

Let gaia handle the regrowth and not player. Player planting trees need more depth discusison, becasue of the issues mentioned earlier and I already see a of long list of use cases. 

On 22/07/2022 at 11:58 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

In ancient times, trees were only planted to decorate places.

True xd.

[ChronA]

On 22/07/2022 at 2:28 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

In ancient times, trees were only planted to decorate places.

Source? Tree derived fruits and nuts like olives, figs, and acorns were staples of the diet in various times and places. Medieval Europeans and even the neolithic native-peoples of the Americas are well documented to have practiced managed forestry to cultivate and harvest lumber, firewood, and hunting lands.  It would be pretty weird if none of these people ever realized that putting tree seed in ground makes new tree grow, and took "commercial" advantage of that fact.