===[TASK]=== Ptolemaic Structures

[Mythos_Ruler]

I'm starting to feel like the Ptolemaic buildings are getting too cartoony. Certainly, compared to all of the other building sets, the Ptolemies are starting to look like something out of Age of Empires Online. For now, they are fine for this release, but I think some of the buildings will need another pass before beta.

About the Military Settlement, it should probably be around the size of a Civic Center, or a little smaller. Bigger than a Barracks, but slightly smaller than a Civic Center. I'm thinking of making the Military Settlement the Ptolemies' expansion building, so instead of the Ptolemies making new Civic Centers, they'd just get the one original Civic Center and would build Military Settlements to expand their territory, like other civs would do with new Civic Centers.

[Atenmeses52]

I'm starting to feel like the Ptolemaic buildings are getting too cartoony. Certainly, compared to all of the other building sets, the Ptolemies are starting to look like something out of Age of Empires Online. For now, they are fine for this release, but I think some of the buildings will need another pass before beta.

About the Military Settlement, it should probably be around the size of a Civic Center, or a little smaller. Bigger than a Barracks, but slightly smaller than a Civic Center. I'm thinking of making the Military Settlement the Ptolemies' expansion building, so instead of the Ptolemies making new Civic Centers, they'd just get the one original Civic Center and would build Military Settlements to expand their territory, like other civs would do with new Civic Centers.

I agree-- If you look at artists' reconstructions of what Egyptian houses looked like, or even if you look at photographs of older houses in Egypt, you see that they are not very colorful:

I think that if we made them less colorful, it would look more realistic

Also, maybe if we toned down the yellowish texturing, and made it a bit more like white-washed walls, they would look more realistic

If we just keep in mind that the major building materials in Egypt are and were mud bricks and stucco/plaster to cover them up, it would help

Edited December 17, 2013 by Atenmeses52

[Lion.Kanzen]

The roof of most of Egyptisn building it's too saturated if you put attention, the other texture is normal.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Moved to other topic.

http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17639&p=280359

Now for few of us have some sense, not all were working with promotional stuff.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[LordGood]

Are the textures the issue? the AO mapped dock doesnt look too structurally outrageous

[Enrique]

I agree-- If you look at artists' reconstructions of what Egyptian houses looked like, or even if you look at photographs of older houses in Egypt, you see that they are not very colorful:

I think that if we made them less colorful, it would look more realistic

Also, maybe if we toned down the yellowish texturing, and made it a bit more like white-washed walls, they would look more realistic

If we just keep in mind that the major building materials in Egypt are and were mud bricks and stucco/plaster to cover them up, it would help

I agree with some parts of the texture are too saturated and will be toned down, but I think it's not right to base your decision on actual photos of older houses in egypt to say that they weren't colorful, in fact I think this civilization may be the most decorated and colour varied of the ones included in the game. (Houses also only have a playercolor border and some border decorations in top of it, not really colorful IMO)

@Lion: I don't see the point of the video.

@Lordgood

I think that in the dock in particular, the stalls are helping to get the sense of cartoony because they do not help to understand its proportions. Some of them occupy more space than the "tower" with the door for example and there are a lot of them. Since we cannot make buildings following the same scale as the units, I think it's better to emphasize the "solid" structure size rather than the props (except the "open" markets).

The dock is quite big, but I think this civ is going to have one of the best naval units roster in the game so that may stay as is IMO,

And as a suggestion, maybe an ancient crane instead of a stall in the left side would look better crane refs:

http://www.timetrips.co.uk/parth-crane.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Pentaspastos_scheme.svg

http://www.museuprehistoriavalencia.es/resources/image/s_14_Artifex_02_Grua%20con%20rueda_1.jpg

[feneur]

@Lion: I don't see the point of the video.

I'm pretty sure he's just adding it as an example of how concept art has been used to illustrate manuals in similar games

I would say we've gotten the hint by now Lion You've posted about it a lot, so please stop now. We'll consider creating a manual other than in-game/online once the game is more or less done. Right now there is not much reason to think too much about it since the game is still changing so much

[Lion.Kanzen]

I'm pretty sure he's just adding it as an example of how concept art has been used to illustrate manuals in similar games

I would say we've gotten the hint by now Lion You've posted about it a lot, so please stop now. We'll consider creating a manual other than in-game/online once the game is more or less done. Right now there is not much reason to think too much about it since the game is still changing so much

Only i want this Sketches can be saved in our pages for this propose.

@Enrique sorry i now its off topic, but the sketch are in this post, only I want that great work can be used for other great proposes, I'm sure Lordgood will appreciated more, he asking to me where found the sketches i was post in other topic. sorry for the inconvenience.

@Lordgood you must try to posting in our group even we can move to the Deviant art topic.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Josh]

I (personally) really like the visual style the Ptolemies are taking. It's certainly not cartoony, but it's got a really nice warmth that can make it a little more inviting compared to the other civilizations.

[LordGood]

Corral draft done. all humble-fied

might replace the door with a fence gate

I think we ought to drop our sketches in their respective thread, like lion says, so we can have a nice pile of concept content for PR, and I do need to get a little more involved in the DA group x)

it would take ages of digging to get them out of the forums in their current scattered state.

and a crane would be fantastic Enrique

...aaahhh...
always the problem comes up just.. LEAGUES after it can be easily remedied. Why wasnt this cartoon thing an issue in early development?

I know it came up a little during the barracks and walls, but the civilization was already half modeled at that point

[Lion.Kanzen]

Excellent, I love the imperfection of the fence, give some realism.

In my Facebook Fan page all are impressed with the dock. Don't forget post it in Deviant Art page.

[wraitii]

Some buildings might feel a little over-decorated (mainly military ones such as the barracks or the fortress), but otherwise I think they look really good (and, not to mention, unique).

[RoekeloosNL]

I (personally) really like the visual style the Ptolemies are taking. It's certainly not cartoony, but it's got a really nice warmth that can make it a little more inviting compared to the other civilizations.

Same here i like the style and the colors cant wait too play with/against them.

[WhiteTreePaladin]

I like the art direction of the Ptolemies. There are a few places I might slightly tone down or remove some colors, but certainly nothing major.

[Edit] I certainly don't want to imply that you should remove too much color. I do think the different colors work better for them overall.

[quantumstate]

I agree with Mythos to some extent, they do look a bit cartoony to me. I think it might be partly to do with the irregularity of the wooden beams. What does it look like if you straighten up the wood and the canvas coverings?

[Pureon]

I'd have to agree, the Ptolemaic buildings are getting slightly too cartoony for my liking. Although we're also seeing other parts of the game heading towards the AOEO style.

I think it might be partly to do with the irregularity of the wooden beams.

Yep, those are a big part of it.

[Prodigal Son]

To me they look more like AOM than AOEO. They're great, even if somewhat different. I think you guys are severely exaggerating it, just look at this:

However some parts of the game have minor (but still bigger than the ptolemaic structures) visual cohesion issues, like the Persian Ram (and ranged siege weapons to a point), some ships and some environmental textures.

[wraitii]

Pureon: might you say which (or is it a tongue in cheek joke about MP?)

Generally speaking I really like the warmth and the uniqueness of the design. However, it is by no means "grandiose", instead it looks very much alive, which is pretty good.

More precisely speaking, I really like Lordgood's Corral here. Sure herethe beams aren't straight, but I don't think it looks cartoony. It just looks like not too much thought was put into it.

However on the docks the beam are all over the place, and they look like they wouldn't stand the test of time (and my axe!). That's wrong. That looks cartoony.

Some buildings I like less are the barracks (weird crenelation, weird support walls on the sides, weird slanted back; I like the design in Mythos' reference page 11 better), and the CC design isn't excellent for me (looks too much like the wonder). The granary is wunderbar, though.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Pureon: might you say which (or is it a tongue in cheek joke about MP?)

Generally speaking I really like the warmth and the uniqueness of the design. However, it is by no means "grandiose", instead it looks very much alive, which is pretty good.

More precisely speaking, I really like Lordgood's Corral here. Sure herethe beams aren't straight, but I don't think it looks cartoony. It just looks like not too much thought was put into it.

However on the docks the beam are all over the place, and they look like they wouldn't stand the test of time (and my axe!). That's wrong. That looks cartoony.

Some buildings I like less are the barracks (weird crenelation, weird support walls on the sides, weird slanted back; I like the design in Mythos' reference page 11 better), and the CC design isn't excellent for me (looks too much like the wonder). The granary is wunderbar, though.

now i play in Svn, its little too bit bad, even don't look cartoony.

I expect look more like this if we want a perfect fence.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[LordGood]

so I guess that's four dissatisfied barracks concepts, all caught nearly complete.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit frustrated guys, I just... am a little

These past four days are just to get something out before Osiris. I really didn't like the idea of letting the ptolemies out with placeholder buildings from other cultures, especially since we've already released screencaps to get fans (and especially donators) all hyped up about it.

If we can't fix the major performance problem, then I say distract the public with another bone to give us some more time.

The dock is definitely going to need another pass, that plank texture is not working for it. (scale down that ragged plank extrusion too)

[wraitii]

LordGood: to be honest, you work way too fast for anyone to catch you between "concept" and "finished model"

It's certainly not a bad thing that we have buildings instead of "nothing". It's just that some models could be improved for A16. At least coming from me, certainly do not take it as a criticism.

[sanderd17]

I like the schwung LordGood gives to the project. It goes really fast, and that's a driving factor for other members. I believe in a development of iterations.

As for the models specifically, when I look at the ptolemaic demo map, it looks quite good IMO.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Relax he know what he doing, Lordgood you are en Xmas vacations? When you start again your studies? Try to relax two days and get back to resolved the issues(little issues) if it's needed I can find most information as references, you are great guy.

[Mythos_Ruler]

so I guess that's four dissatisfied barracks concepts, all caught nearly complete.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding a bit frustrated guys, I just... am a little

These past four days are just to get something out before Osiris. I really didn't like the idea of letting the ptolemies out with placeholder buildings from other cultures, especially since we've already released screencaps to get fans (and especially donators) all hyped up about it.

If we can't fix the major performance problem, then I say distract the public with another bone to give us some more time.

The dock is definitely going to need another pass, that plank texture is not working for it. (scale down that ragged plank extrusion too)

Take a deep breath. This is just how we work and have worked for nearly a decade. We iterate and iterate until we are satisfied. I believe the Greek building set is currently on its 4th incarnation.

[Enrique]

Is part of the developement process LordGood, you cant imagine how many models and sketches I have discarded even after working quite some time in them.