User Interface concepts

[FeXoR]

Calling up the entire manual just to see this might not be the most effective way to do things Not sure how well it could be integrated/made to work with going back and forth between the manual and the match setup screen, though on the other hand that might (at least to some extent) probably be said of a factions choosing screen/dialog as well.

That should be possible even if using this kind of screen, though you may of course have to go back and forth depending on the layout of this screen/how it works with the match setup screen.

IMO the match setup should be optimized for playing the 1000th's time (and you don't need the manual in this case or any IMO "space wasting" selection window).

If someone is new to the game he should have the possibility to access all information (and not depend on trial and error) so he should be able to access the manual from everywhere it is useful.

This would mean one button in many pages but the big work of a well designed manual would only be needed once.

I agree it's beautiful BTW. That's not my point. It's just a huge space requirement for information you only need about 10 times (until you got used to it) and functionality that could be done in a dropdown.

Concerning the manual itself: The data in there should come from the templates so changes automatically go to the next "manual build"

(AFAIK someone is/was working on this already).

Edited March 18, 2014 by FeXoR

[niektb]

Perhaps use this screen (and extend it with more info) instead of the current civ description window?

[Stan`]

Maybe instead of random buttons you could blend the factions and make a question mark for the last one ?

[Mythos_Ruler]

IMO the match setup should be optimized for playing the 1000th's time (and you don't need the manual in this case or any IMO "space wasting" selection window).

This is based on the Age of Mythology Major God selection screen. That game was quite competitive and no one was begging for a drop menu.

[FeXoR]

This is based on the Age of Mythology Major God selection screen. That game was quite competitive and no one was begging for a drop menu.

As I experienced AoM it was quite imbalanced (the chance to cast myth units on hit hersir).

I didn't play it online or much in multiplayer either though.

I can't imagine though it had a long living big online gaming community due to the lack of balance (like e.g. AoE II: AoK/AoC, Starcraft, Warcraft III had/have).

I have no information about this though so I might be wrong.

I don't think that a game would be rejected because of the way the civilization is chosen either.

I just find it worse to use and in general are opposed to "better locking, worse to use" things (which gets quite common).

Good looking is better if it means no drawback in usability IMO.

I seam to have another priority than most PPL but I'm quite sure the long term success of programs/games lies in their usability, not the best look.

(That's why most money can be earned by making good looking games while the most played games have average graphics but are much more thought through and balanced.

That's why close to no innovative games with high replayability potential get to the shops: They don't sell.

And that's why "hardcore games" get more and more frustrated.)

But we can change that!

We're not here to make money, we are here to make a lasting fun game (I think).

[sorry, I got carried away a bit ^^. But I mean it]

Edited March 18, 2014 by FeXoR

[Stan`]

I agree with you in terms of games in general, but don't you think, that its has no real impact on the game whatsoever here ?

[FeXoR]

I agree with you in terms of games in general, but don't you think, that its has no real impact on the game whatsoever here ?

Well, things stack. But yes: I don't think that a game would be rejected because of the way the civilization is chosen...

[Stan`]

Oh okay, accumulation. Make sense then.

[Mythos_Ruler]

@ Fexor: This screen takes 3 clicks to choose your civ, while a drop menu needs 2 clicks. While this screen gives you easily compared information with a simple hover over the icons, and the drop menu doesn't. The one extra click is the "Okay" button.

[Pureon]

Below are updated Photoshop visuals using the new official font and chosen button design. Note: content shown may not match latest game screens

[FeXoR]

@ Fexor: This screen takes 3 clicks to choose your civ, while a drop menu needs 2 clicks. While this screen gives you easily compared information with a simple hover over the icons, and the drop menu doesn't. The one extra click is the "Okay" button.

I usually use the mouse wheel to choose from dropdowns (though that didn't work in our GUI last time I tried).

Isn't there a dropdown content mousover tooltip support?

I like to have as many information on one sight (like the match setup and all players settings) rather then a window/screen for each type of information.

Combined with a detailed manual to study that's perfect for me.

But if the majority of PPL like the shiny solution better I'll have to live with that

[Spahbod]

I agree with FeXoR about the "usability problems", but only in multiplayer mode. In single player mode, there isn't going to be a real problem with this and in fact, AoM only had such a selection screen for single player games.

Although we should remember that after a player gets familiar with the civs, he really doesn't need to see all of these information for each game. It is like forcing the players to see the intro video of the game because it contains valuable gameplay information.

[Lion.Kanzen]

I agree with FeXoR about the "usability problems", but only in multiplayer mode. In single player mode, there isn't going to be a real problem with this and in fact, AoM only had such a selection screen for single player games.

Although we should remember that after a player gets familiar with the civs, he really doesn't need to see all of these information for each game. It is like forcing the players to see the intro video of the game because it contains valuable gameplay information.

Yeah, the our emblems are universals, the user needs hsve a previous experience to use them. That kind screen are more practical for maps. Like AoM. But it's not good as faction selector. Because is more easy read Romans than recognize the symbol.

[m0l0t0ph]

Hey guys, why not combine both methods? I mean looking at Pureons mockups there is still enough space in the Match Setup Menu to integrate a button for something like "Show me the civs" right next to the civs dropdown menu. When clicking at this button you could get Michaels new AoM-Civ-Selection Submenu. With this design people who already know what they want to play can select their civ easy and fast while others who need some infomration about the civs can go to the extra menu.

[Stan`]

+1

[FeXoR]

Hey guys, why not combine both methods? I mean looking at Pureons mockups there is still enough space in the Match Setup Menu to integrate a button for something like "Show me the civs" right next to the civs dropdown menu. When clicking at this button you could get Michaels new AoM-Civ-Selection Submenu. With this design people who already know what they want to play can select their civ easy and fast while others who need some infomration about the civs can go to the extra menu.

That's why I suggested the manual being accessible from many places including the match setup screen.

Of cause we can add buttons for partial information everywhere but IMO the manual would do the trick much cleaner.

(only one button to add and only one detailed manual to design)

Edited March 19, 2014 by FeXoR

[wraitii]

I disagree with the "usability problem" issue. There are several ways we could show the civs of other player (one I just thought of is a ring of color, à la "xbox controller", around the civ chosen by a player). We can perfectly add some quick info on top of Mythos mockup, such as the map and its size.

Also, if we implement something like "double-click on a civ makes you select it" the extra click become meaningless.

[Josh]

I usually use the mouse wheel to choose from dropdowns (though that didn't work in our GUI last time I tried).

I've added support for using the scrollwheel in SVN.

Personally, I agree with FeXoR on the civilization selection issue and I think that a good contextual help system would work better over a dedicated page. But I think this discussion is on the brink of descending to a heated argument which is silly because:

• The GUI department doesn't have the resources to implement major features any time soon.
• This is a trivial issue. Come on, 28 posts on this alone. Really?

As for Pureon's new mockups: I really like them, but the yellow buttons distastefully remind me of our first GUI version.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think that a good contextual help system would work better over a dedicated page.

A mockup would be appreciated.

[WhiteTreePaladin]

I think there are some red versions of those yellow buttons using the new style also.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Im proud for teams desitions and quality artistic it's possibly we can test firstly or soon.

Im must I like the last version in SVN but session game is important to see the new proposals.

[Mythos_Ruler]

All right. What about maintaining a drop menu, but putting a small button next to the menu to open the selection screen that has more information and options. We can even add cool things like randomizing factions within cultures or choosing custom randomization (shift-click to add to selection, then click Okay; the computer will choose a faction for you out of those chosen).

[gameboy]

Nice work, team! When we will use to it?

[Lion.Kanzen]

All right. What about maintaining a drop menu, but putting a small button next to the menu to open the selection screen that has more information and options. We can even add cool things like randomizing factions within cultures or choosing custom randomization (shift-click to add to selection, then click Okay; the computer will choose a faction for you out of those chosen).

we can see each one.? Imperial, eastern....etc

[FeXoR]

All right. What about maintaining a drop menu, but putting a small button next to the menu to open the selection screen that has more information and options. We can even add cool things like randomizing factions within cultures or choosing custom randomization (shift-click to add to selection, then click Okay; the computer will choose a faction for you out of those chosen).

This is cool!

It now has a functionality not possible with a dropdown (with that many civs).