Relics proposals

[idanwin]

I don't really have any suggestions, but since a collect all relics victory condition will probably be added some time in the future we can already think a bit about what these relics would be.

1) There must be something (a particle effect?) that makes sure a player can immediately recognize a relic as being one.

2) They must fit into our time window (evidently!)

3) They should fit with biotopes/civs on the map (iow multiple relics)

Personally I would prefer relics to be unique, there is only 'one of each' in a game.

In ancient Greece, a city or sanctuary might claim to possess, without necessarily displaying, the remains of a venerated hero as a part of hero cult. Other venerable objects associated with the hero were more likely to be on display in sanctuaries, such as spears, shields, or other weaponry; chariots, ships or figureheads; furniture such as chairs or tripods; and clothing. The sanctuary of the Leucippides at Sparta claimed to display the egg of Leda.

In contrast to the relics of Christian saints, the bones were not regarded as holding a particular power derived from the hero, with some exceptions, such as the divine shoulder of Pelops held at Olympia. Miracles and healing were not regularly attributed to them; rather, their presence was meant to serve a tutelary function, as the tomb of Oedipus was said to protect Athens.

Proposals for relics:

• Body of Alexander (transported in sarcophagus) (Macedonian)
  
• The Sword of Brennus (the one he threw on the scales ... buuut! Brennus is also a hero in the game so this wouldn't work out) (Gallic)
  
• Gáe Bulg (Brythonic Celts)
  
• Śarīra (Mauryan Indians)
  
• Roman Eagles
  

Proposals for non-existing relics:

• Armor of Achilles (Spartans)
  
• The Egg of Leda (Spartans)
  
• The Head of Orpheus
  
• Chariot of Krishna (Mauryans)
  
• Shield of Aeneas (Romans)
  
• Bones of Theseus (Athens)
  
• Babr-e Bayan (Persians) (link)
  
• Golden Fleece (Greeks)
  
• The (Delphi) Omphalos
  
• Cornucopia (aka Horn of Plenty) (Greeks/Gauls)
  
• The Gundestrup Cauldron (Gauls)
  

Proposals for common identifiers for all relics:

• Some kind of golden glow around the item or unit carrying the item
  

How can relics be picked up and moved?

I'll try to update this list regularly with your proposals.

Edited March 7, 2013 by idanwin

[Lion.Kanzen]

I don't really have any suggestions, but since a collect all relics victory condition will probably be added some time in the future we can already think a bit about what these relics would be.

1) There must be something (a particle effect?) that makes sure a player can immediately recognize a relic as being one.

2) They must fit into our time window (evidently!)

3) They should fit with biotopes/civs on the map (iow multiple relics)

Personally I would prefer relics to be unique, there is only 'one of each' in a game.

Proposals for relics:

-The Sword of Brennus (the one he threw on the scales ... buuut! Brennus is also a hero in the game so this wouldn't work out)

Proposals for non-existing relics:

-The Egg of Leda

I'll try to update this list regularly with your proposals.

the Dead body of Alexander in War of Diadochi. i thin was transport in a kind of sarcophagus.

[idanwin]

Thanks Lion, but please don't quote full posts ;-)

[kosmo]

The Palladium, which was said to be made out of the bones of pelops. It's said to be about 1m tall and showed Pallas. Odysseus and Diomedes stole the Palladium out of Troy (since Troy wouldn't have fallen otherwise iirc), the Romans claimed to have it in the temple of Vesta later on.

[oshron]

there should probably be one or two relics for each civ. i would personally recommend using (arguably) historical ones as much as possible, but mythological or outright fictional ones if there's no other choice or if a relic for one civ would just be a repeat of another. the good thing about relics is that we'd be able to look at pre-500bc ones instead of necessarily having to go for the regular timeframe. i presume these relics would function similarly to the relics in AOM?

here's some suggestions of my own:

• Śarīra (Mauryan Indians): this fits into the general timeframe of the game and to the area, though it's a generic term for Buddhist relics. it usually refers to a pearl- or crystal-like bead found among the cremated remains of Buddhist spiritual masters and is believed to ward off evil. perhaps its bonus would be to boost morale in the surrounding area?
  
• Gáe Bulg (Brythonic Celts): a mythological item, this was the spear of the legendary Irish warrior Cú Chulainn and made from the bone of a sea monster. i'd say the uses of it would be to increase the strength and power of all of the holding player's units that use spears (perhaps extending to javelin-throwers to make it more useful and desirable among players) much like several different relics in AOM
  
• Armor of Achilles (Spartans): another mythological item, i decided to mark it down as the Spartan relic because of Achilles' reputation as a warrior and the largely warrior-associated culture of the Spartans. the effects would probably be to make your hero units virtually indestructible, making it really useful only in the later stages of the game.
  

[memmaker650]

Great idea.

Add new game possibilities increase the way people play the game and increase the possibilities.

[idanwin]

Well, these mythological ones were also 'real'. Or at least people thought they were real. The thing about relics is that everyone likes to say they possess one and sometimes people lie. The example I gave about the egg of Leda was an actual claim of the Spartans, of course we now know they couldn't possibly have possessed this, but people at that time may have believed the story.

I'll add civ names to each proposal as well from now on.

How should relics be picked up ?

Only by priests/healers? Or by any unit? Or is the relic automatically loaded on a cart that can be controlled (like artifacts in AoE I)

Having relics give morale boosts would be great!!!

Edited February 25, 2013 by idanwin

[Lion.Kanzen]

Thanks Lion, but please don't quote full posts ;-)

sorry, if are a easy form to dont quote all text without modify, "post='263485'". many time i reply when are in class. or when are awaiking, and in that situations im demi overleep. nevermind. the dedadBody of a Leader is a Relivc, in second part 0AD, the Saints objetcs, like "Vera Cross". Longinus Spear etc.

[60and80]

Lion, why don't Wildfire like, employ you or something? You have over 2,000 posts!

[Lion.Kanzen]

Lion, why don't Wildfire like, employ you or something? You have over 2,000 posts!

im a addict. hahahahaha.

And they are not interesting im like a headaches.

And i was Make some tittle insignicant work for they.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[leper]

sorry, if are a easy form to dont quote all text without modify,

Just use the "Reply to this topic" form on the bottom of the page, as it can get pretty annoying when you just want to read a topic but you have to scroll over the stuff you already read again and again.

[Sighvatr]

For a possible relic, we could use the chariot Krishna drove in (Maurya), or the shield of Aeneas (Romans).

[Lion.Kanzen]

I don't know if Golden Eagle, of Romans can be a Relics, but its hard to lost a Maximum Symbol of Roman Army.

I remember read about Carrhae, many years before, the emperor Augustus Negotiates With Parthians give back the Eagles.

And Germanicus fighting to recuperate the Eagles lose it in Teutoburg Forest.

Aftermath

Rome was humiliated by this defeat, and this was made even worse by the fact that the Parthians had captured several Legionary Eagles.[28] It is also mentioned by Plutarch that the Parthians found the Roman prisoner of war that resembled Crassus the most, dressed him as a woman and paraded him through Parthia for all to see. This, however, could easily be Roman propaganda.

Romans had Many Sacred Symbol, two Head Axe the Symbol of Roman Law. very similar to Minoan Main symbol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

Edited February 26, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[oshron]

Well, these mythological ones were also 'real'. Or at least people thought they were real. The thing about relics is that everyone likes to say they possess one and sometimes people lie. The example I gave about the egg of Leda was an actual claim of the Spartans, of course we now know they couldn't possibly have possessed this, but people at that time may have believed the story.

I'll add civ names to each proposal as well from now on.

How should relics be picked up ?

Only by priests/healers? Or by any unit? Or is the relic automatically loaded on a cart that can be controlled (like artifacts in AoE I)

Having relics give morale boosts would be great!!!

i was about to recommend that any unit could pickthem up, but it occurs to me how unbalanced that would be. depending on when they become available, i say either hero units OR priests/healers. if someone finds an exceptionally valuable relic near their territory, that would give them incentive to build up their economy and advance as quickly as possible so that they can send out one of their heroes to recover it and give 'em a boost

"Egg of Leda" would actually make a much better representative relic for the Spartans than Achilles' armor. perhaps it could give a health bonus to citizen-soldiers? even if its bunk, it's just for a game

[Mythos_Ruler]

Roman eagles and standards would be cool. Another is the "Bones of Theseus" for the Athenians.

http://www.greekmythology.com/Myths/Heroes/Theseus/theseus.html

"Generations pasted without much thought being given to Theseus. Then during the Persian wars Athenian solders reported seeing the ghost of Theseus and came to believe him responsible for their victories. The Athenian general Cimon received a command from the Oracle at Delphi to find Theseus's bones and return them to Athens. This he did and he was reburied in a magnificent tomb that also served as a sanctuary for the defenseless."

[lilstewie]

That box on the elephants head holds Buddhist relics that will be buried under a stupa.

[TsukiraLuna]

Hmm, some interesting objects that I'm aware of:

Babr-e Bayan - A mythical coat said to have been worn by the Persian Hero Rostam. (It is very simular to Heracles' Hide of the Nemean Lion.)

The Golden Fleece - A classic, Greek of origin. Later interpertations suggest it's link towards gold mining using fleece wool to filter out the gold. (Could provide a boost towards metal mining?)

The (Delpi) Omphalos - A stone object said to allow direct communication with the gods. (Interesting enough to look into.)

Cornucopia - Also known as the Horn of Plenty. The image of a large horn filled with food or coins, said to resemble abundance. (Altough common in greek art and mythology, it has been found on an image of the Gaulish god Cernunnos as well.)

My favourite:

The Gundestrup Cauldron - It is a decorated silver cauldron with images of the Gaulish god Cernunnos as well as other figures. It is believed to have been made for the Celts by Thracians. (Could give a boost in trading?)

[Sighvatr]

@Lion: That would be really cool to use relics like treasures in Age of Empires 3. If a hero picks up the relic, and deposits the relic to a temple, all heroes recieve a bonus until the temple is destroyed. Collecting relics may provide strategic value in the long run. Each civilization in the game, puts out two relics that reflects their culture, and is spread out through the map. Opposing civilizations may pick up other relics, and recieve benefits for themselves. Perhaps picking up enemy relics, and dropping it off in a temple could produce a negative effect to an enemy's hero?

[Lion.Kanzen]

good idea, i was thought in 8 players map free for all wins, the first to colect all other 7 relics, the game can be, endless, but with alliances and betrayers can be done, and to the end can be 1 vs 1vs 1 for last relic. think all relic and a temple protected by all kind defenses and champion units.

@sighvatr

may be only in this mode the hero can be penalized if your civ lost the relic.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[oshron]

in my opinion, the best way for them to work would be to make them like the relics in AOM: there are no positive or negative effects to not having them, and collecting one and depositing it in a temple (or maybe civic center) only give you a benefit unless its specifically programmed otherwise (these would be edtior-only relics)

[idanwin]

The relics in the normal "Relics" game mode should not have bonuses in my opinion: the game should get harder as you collect more relics, not easier! But having relics with bonuses in the editor sounds good to me.

(adding negative effects isn't necessary, the other players that want those relics will make it more difficult already)

Maybe we could add some notification on the map when a relic has been picked up, or even reveal that location on the map when it has been sighted by a player.

[Lion.Kanzen]

two Relic Modes: classical you have limit time to holding all relics when the time end if you holding all relics you won.

and Musical Chairs that steadly eliminates a player who owner of the less relics of all the other players. the player have a some time to collect relics. and every player down one by one.

[TsukiraLuna]

I kinda agree with Oshron. There shouldn't be any negative effects upon loosing or not having a relic in a normal game. Those relics are most likely stored inside one of your buildigs and be well protected by military. Loosing one would mean the player is already in a vulnerable state, extra penalization should not be necessary.

[Pallav]

in my opinion, the best way for them to work would be to make them like the relics in AOM: there are no positive or negative effects to not having them, and collecting one and depositing it in a temple (or maybe civic center) only give you a benefit unless its specifically programmed otherwise (these would be edtior-only relics)

Yes that`s what I thought as well... that would be probably the best way to use relics in the game

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Tsukiraluna we talk not only normal mode, we talk too about a special mode. AOM relics mode can work in normal scenario settings.