0 A.D. Is Wasting Its Potential !

[Grautvornix]

In 0AD 0.28 english version says indeed Scenario editor (from within the game):

And so does Atlas itself:

@ObelixAre you on a different version or language?

 

[Obelix]

18 hours ago, Thalatta said:

23 hours ago, Obelix said:

My Windows menu entry's called 'Map editor'!

That's weird... I'm on Win 11, game is 0.28.0 a2cae.

Same here! But I was unclear, I mean the Windows Start menu folder "0 A.D. Empires Ascendant" with the entries "0 A.D.", "Open logs folder", "Web site" and "Map editor".

EDIT:

18 hours ago, Grautvornix said:

@ObelixAre you on a different version or language?

My Windows is set to de_DE, my installation should be en_US by default.

Edited October 10 by Obelix
hadn't see Grautvornix post early enough

[Thalatta]

19 minutes ago, Obelix said:

I mean the Windows Start menu folder "0 A.D. Empires Ascendant" with the entries "0 A.D.", "Open logs folder", "Web site" and "Map editor".

Ahh, I've never used that . Still when pressed, Atlas opens (I guess it should be said that's its actual name, since the "Scenario Editor" part seems just descriptive).

Unrelated: you (and others) have told me to create PRs, but my New Pull Request button is disabled. I created Issues instead (for now).

Edited October 10 by Thalatta

[Thalatta]

23 minutes ago, Supermoon said:

Hopefully you can figure out the PR issue soon.

I managed a few days ago, I'll mention it after doing another one to completely address one of my Issues, but have not gotten around it yet.

[Bravado2020]

I agree that this game is wasting potential but also the in game online community isn't what it once was at least for me, every game I've been a part of online now always has someone using profanity or just being a fool in general, I am very intrigued to see what scenario's and campaigns you guys come up with, i may even try my hand at some myself but i agree the Atlas Editor good as it is could use some improvements.

[lilypoppy]

3 hours ago, Bravado2020 said:

I agree that this game is wasting potential but also the in game online community isn't what it once was at least for me, every game I've been a part of online now always has someone using profanity or just being a fool in general, I am very intrigued to see what scenario's and campaigns you guys come up with, i may even try my hand at some myself but i agree the Atlas Editor good as it is could use some improvements.

@Bravado2020

Hi here is my project !

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/170017-devlog-burning-heart-a-narrative-campaign-for-0-ad/#comment-762999

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

7 hours ago, Bravado2020 said:

e I've been a part of online now always has someone using profanity or just being a fool in general

Society is in decline and Generation Z is generally irreverent.

People are really crazy lately.

[Gurken Khan]

5 hours ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Society is in decline and Generation Z is generally irreverent.

Quote

The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age.

Socrates agrees.

[Thalatta]

On 12/09/2026 at 11:24 AM, Obelix said:

I really get sad when reading thread titles like this one and replies seconding it. IMO saying an open source software project 'is wasting its potential!' is discrediting the work of the main developers and the hundreds of contributors who are all doing it voluntarily in their free-time.

I see it as the exact opposite: so many think the game is wasting its potential because it's painful to see that all the amazing work the devs have done (and I emphasise that before what's coming) is being used to cater an unrepresentative, yet habitué, group that wants a rushed game that's 3 times faster than the already competitive StarCraft II (production and research times as reference), and even use mods to remove all the nice graphics to have an advantage at it. How can those who appreciate history, graphics and good design in general not find that just ridiculous and sad? Last week in the challenge thread I read yet another example, where someone posted they don't play anymore because of the 100 pop in 7 mins, which is completely understandable (no matter those who react with a little confused face) since the game has been described here as "the Fastest Click Wins", and, again, a crushing majority of those who play have absolute zero interest in any of this stuff (well over 95%, since, for AoE2 at least, 80% are those who have played at least one MP match, and 90-95% those who do it regularly), but echo chambers are one hell of a drug (as is Redbull along those tryharder APMs). What is even more baffling still is that those who often make claims on what this game is supposed to be constantly contradict the Project Overview and The Vision of 0 A.D. documents (which, since I'm at it already, include the statement "strong emphasis on historical accuracy"). Just to quote the latter: "We need to keep our guard up and avoid these pitfalls:", the first point being "Fastest click wins". I'm really sorry, but your guard has been downed, breached and obliterated long ago then.

 

15 hours ago, Bravado2020 said:

I agree that this game is wasting potential but also the in game online community isn't what it once was at least for me, every game I've been a part of online now always has someone using profanity or just being a fool in general

Personally I see it as a symptom of the problem, I do wonder if by having SC2 speeds or similar those types would leave and retreat in disgust back to their mom's basements where they belong, along with (re)gaining more thoughtful players (I've even proposed to have "Normal" and "Competitive" Presets not to be so extreme, to try to keep all these players). At least I hope with your roleplaying community you imagine 0 A.D. as is should have been  (again, according to its own foundational documents).

[Ultimate Aurelian]

15 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Socrates agrees.

i dont know enough about society in that specific  period to know if he was right.

Might well be one of those recurring issues.

[Ultimate Aurelian]

21 hours ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Society is in decline and Generation Z is generally irreverent.

People are really crazy lately.

tbh that was common in MP games for a while maybe its just the game getting more popular.

[Gurken Khan]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

i dont know enough about society

The current youth of today is always the worst that ever has been, for thousands of years. There's plenty of "DJs" who play that record in every age, but of course Socrates is very prominent and reaches far back. I'm old and conservative, but you won't catch me selling you that evergreen as the freshest release.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

59 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

tbh that was common in MP games for a while maybe its just the game getting more popular.

Many years ago it wasn't like that, Stan once subtly hinted to me: "those people weren't even born back then".

 

Now I understand what he meant.

[Ultimate Aurelian]

51 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

The current youth of today is always the worst that ever has been, for thousands of years. There's plenty of "DJs" who play that record in every age, but of course Socrates is very prominent and reaches far back. I'm old and conservative, but you won't catch me selling you that evergreen as the freshest release.

I dont think every generation is an exact copy of previous ones.

So se some generations will be worse than others and in some cases it might be right (not the case regarding players of this game IMO).

 

[Ultimate Aurelian]

8 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Many years ago it wasn't like that, Stan once subtly hinted to me: "those people weren't even born back then".

 

Now I understand what he meant.

Millenials were insulting each other on Xbox Live think it may just be a case of the game being less popular (or at least with that sort of audience) back in the day.

[Bravado2020]

I think it all boils down to the fact that 0ad is a great game in essence but does not have such a great online community, a lack of willingness to try new things or enthusiasm to do anything but rush build, fight, win or lose style matches, take my roleplay discord for example, i started that with a lot of enthusiasm thinking people would be interested in trying it out but apart from 2 people mainly just one person the lack of enthusiasm has been saddening and has also resulted in myself losing enthusiasm to do it, not meaning the forums or any you guys of course.

Edited 8 hours ago by Bravado2020

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Bravado2020 said:

take my roleplay discord for example, i started that with a lot of enthusiasm thinking people would be interested in trying it out but apart from 2 people mainly just one person the lack of enthusiasm has been saddening and has also resulted in myself losing enthusiasm to do it

Well, it's not the profile of most people here, considering the nature of the game, you might have more luck in a roleplaying forum (or maybe something on Reddit?), or, you could make a mod where it makes sense to have more complex diplomacy, commerce, and so on, and hope for the best (or you could check existing mods for one that is more aligned with that).

[guerringuerrin]

23 hours ago, Thalatta said:

see it as the exact opposite: so many think the game is wasting its potential because it's painful to see that all the amazing work the devs have done (and I emphasise that before what's coming) is being used to cater an unrepresentative, yet habitué, group that wants a rushed game that's 3 times faster than the already competitive StarCraft II (production and research times as reference), and even use mods to remove all the nice graphics to have an advantage at it. How can those who appreciate history, graphics and good design in general not find that just ridiculous and sad? Last week in the challenge thread I read yet another example, where someone posted they don't play anymore because of the 100 pop in 7 mins, which is completely understandable (no matter those who react with a little confused face) since the game has been described here as "the Fastest Click Wins", and, again, a crushing majority of those who play have absolute zero interest in any of this stuff (well over 95%, since, for AoE2 at least, 80% are those who have played at least one MP match, and 90-95% those who do it regularly), but echo chambers are one hell of a drug (as is Redbull along those tryharder APMs). What is even more baffling still is that those who often make claims on what this game is supposed to be constantly contradict the Project Overview and The Vision of 0 A.D. documents (which, since I'm at it already, include the statement "strong emphasis on historical accuracy"). Just to quote the latter: "We need to keep our guard up and avoid these pitfalls:", the first point being "Fastest click wins". I'm really sorry, but your guard has been downed, breached and obliterated long ago then.

What strikes me is the confidence with which you talk about a community you don't even know, lurking around threads and cherry-picking opinions that fit your own view of the game. What's more, you have the audacity to make arguments based on percentages as if you had conducted some kind of data analysis study of the community, when in reality, you're interacting with barely 10 people on the forum. It takes some nerve to come here and tell everyone how things should be done when you've demonstrated so little. 

And I'm genuinely surprised by how someone can be so confident in their opinions while telling everyone how things should be done when they've demonstrated so little, let alone making claims about an MP community and player base they don't know at all.

[Thalatta]

@guerringuerrin I do think it takes some nerve to say I've demonstrated so little when for months I've gone through dozens of books to properly source fixes for historical mistakes. For days now I've been updating a PR fixing Ancient Greek language guidelines, with @Vantha's help. What do I have to demonstrate? That I can reach 100 pop in less than 7:30? There are things I'm interested in, and there are things I'm just not, and I've just tried to help with the first. And honestly, I don't think I have anything to demonstrate to you before expressing my opinion anyway. You like to assume I've been reading just since I signed up, when I've done it for months before that, and I've read plenty of posts going back years. You like to assume I'm looking for posts that fit my own view of the game, when they just pop up often (like this over two-months-and-a-half old thread, in which only now I posted! Maybe think about that if you think I'm SO bent to "telling everyone how things should be done"), or are referenced by something new (like the 100 pop thread), so hardly cherry-picking. If you and others just want to ignore them then that's your choice, but it's just not mine and I'm in my absolute right to support them.

The statistics mentioned are for AoE2 as reference (no matter if you want to portray that as if I "conducted some kind of data analysis study of the community"), that those speeds are 3x faster than SC2 is a fact (and pointed out by many in the past), and the foundational documents state what I've quoted, and more (I recommend everyone to read them, actually). And I'm sorry if something I've said offended you, some stuff was meant more as humorous than aggressive, but it seems you took some things the wrong way for then to completely disregard what's being said (which, again, is what I just stated in the previous sentence) and basically attack me.

[scr0llbaer]

lol wasn't this thread originally just about some map editor thing with a provocative generalized title?

now this thread was "hijacked" to match that title.

still, maybe these topics could be separated.

On 21/10/2026 at 12:40 PM, Thalatta said:

as "the Fastest Click Wins"

Fast clicking is not the same as building out fast btw. Even in old turn-based games like Civ1 you're gonna lose if you "idle" (though admittedly you'll be much more aware of "idling") and you learn to optimize your build-out-strategy. So in principle there is no way around learning to build fast enough in this type of game. Also for the AoE series I see a lot about "booming" doing web searches.

Maybe there could be different game modes, but these will require different balancing. 1vs1 is already quite different than 4vs4. I like to play against many (allied) AIs on a giant map because I just like the epic-ness of that, the "history" and tales that may unfold in your head here. The game is not very balanced or fine-tuned for that but I can "improvise". Finally you get to meaningfully build walls and all for better protection of your bases while most of your army is campaigning away, that sort of thing. But maybe this is the experience some players are looking for and what the original documents (things should never be set in stone btw anyway) hint at when referring to "historic accuracy" and things like that.

Problem of course, it's an open source project, and for general gamers not familiar with that, this sort of "free games" have a reputation of not being very polished, and it's true in the case of 0 A.D., the staff is lacking to cater properly to newcomers, and there isn't authoritative quality control. One of my opened issues was closed (perhaps I should have discussed in the forums first admittedly) even though it is a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS thing for anyone even remotely interested in good game design. But yeah, "typically open source".

Edited 4 hours ago by scr0llbaer

[guerringuerrin]

Of course it bothers me when you say things like this:

On 21/10/2026 at 9:40 AM, Thalatta said:

it's painful to see that all the amazing work the devs have done (and I emphasise that before what's coming) is being used to cater an unrepresentative, yet habitué, group that wants a rushed game that's 3 times faster than the already competitive StarCraft II

I can't understand how you can say that SC2 is slower. I doubt you even play it. But it doesn't matter. You’ll find very few people on this forum pointing fingers at those they believe are responsible for this project’s lack of success, and you’re one of them. And I’m not even sure you know who you’re pointing fingers at.

 

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

What do I have to demonstrate? That I can reach 100 pop in less than 7:30? There are things I'm interested in, and there are things I'm just not, and I've just tried to help with the first.

On 21/10/2026 at 9:40 AM, Thalatta said:

How can those who appreciate history, graphics and good design in general not find that just ridiculous and sad? Last week in the challenge thread I read yet another example, where someone posted they don't play anymore because of the 100 pop in 7 mins, which is completely understandable

That’s perfectly fine. You don’t have to be interested in it. A challenge that originated within the community itself, presumably lacking the credentials of representativeness that, for some reason, you have the authority to assign after some months roaming the forum. Very similar challenges can be found in undisputed successes of the genre, just have a look at the aoe2 challenges. But to you, this is an example of why people leave this game: “because it’s too fast, poor devs whose hard work was co-opted by an unrepresentative group.”

Well, I don't find anything funny about it

[lilypoppy]

Whatever our opinions,

we agree on one thing: we all love 0 A.D. 

That love is what brought us here, and it's what makes this community special.

I feel lucky to have met so many passionate people, and I'm putting that energy into Burning Heart, the narrative campaign I'm leading. I'd be honored to have you follow along. Thank you all! 

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/170017-devlog-burning-heart-a-narrative-campaign-for-0-ad/

[Grautvornix]

@lilypoppy is right - let's stop argueing and make the game a bit better every day (in differnt ways, software, maps, historical accuracy, voices, music, artwork, mods, whatever).

We all do know that there are still miles to go if we arrive ever. As an engineer I dare stating that a product you ran out of improvement ideas for is essentially dead.