Differentiate Macedonia Civ

[borg-]

29 minutes ago, alre said:

arsenals that train crossbows in p2 seems nice.

-25% cost for siege looks good to me, honestly I wouldn't want teams boni to be exaggerately impactful, allowing a whole team to build storehouses outside of territory would be way too much.

1 metal per seconds means 2 merc cav at minute 3, seems pretty strong to me.

Storehouses as bonus civ no team civ.

[chrstgtr]

7 hours ago, borg- said:

The safest way to do this is to give it some unique technologies. The challenge is to find technologies that, in addition to being unique, can provide some kind of gameplay change. Bolts p2 seems interesting too.

I think we should really focus on changes that will actually change gameplay/create different build orders. Right now most civs play basically the same (i.e., most civs are boom to p3 then spam the strongest units for that civ). Also, the most interesting bonuses right now are ones that actually cause you to play a civ differently (Sparta spear bonus makes players make more melee, Iber skirm bonus causes players to make more skirm instead of other units, Athens phasing bonus causes players to phase at different times, etc.). Doing something like introducing p2 siege or creating free siege, will actually cause players to change when they phase and what they do in those phases (i.e., staying in p2 longer and doing push with bolts or phasing to p3 faster to do quick siege push). Giving something like a metal trickle won't really change how someone decides to play a civ--it just makes using that civ slightly easier. The army choice option is fine, but I don't think it will change much in terms of play because it's just pre-determining what type of units will be made (and, at least right now, no one will choose an all melee inf army). 

Edited June 27, 2023 by chrstgtr

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I would agree with chrstgtr on the metal trickle.  (Honestly I would contend that the Ptolemy bonus of a food trickle should also be changed to better reflect Egypt's farming.  A trickle discourages farming if anything.)

For one thing there is no historical basis as far as I am aware for making Macedonians get metal, and if anything, their region was better known for its forests, and some bonus like trees lasting longer would be more appropriate.

[alre]

3 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Honestly I would contend that the Ptolemy bonus of a food trickle should also be changed to better reflect Egypt's farming.  A trickle discourages farming if anything.

it makes sense as a team bonus because it affects allies.

[alre]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I would agree with chrstgtr on the metal trickle.  (Honestly I would contend that the Ptolemy bonus of a food trickle should also be changed to better reflect Egypt's farming.  A trickle discourages farming if anything.)

For one thing there is no historical basis as far as I am aware for making Macedonians get metal, and if anything, their region was better known for its forests, and some bonus like trees lasting longer would be more appropriate.

the metal trickle bonus could be called "colossus of rhodes" lol, although rhodes was not an ally to macedonia (they weren't enemies either until the invasion, that's noteworthy).

[real_tabasco_sauce]

not a fan of the metal trickle idea. The mace team bonus is already fine IMO, maybe just buff it or otherwise tweak it to make things more interesting.

P2 siege workshop with either access to bolts or access to a unique siege upgrade would be great. This would be all that is needed to set mace aside as a siege civ.

I think storehouses should remain in territory.

[borg-]

36 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

not a fan of the metal trickle idea. The mace team bonus is already fine IMO, maybe just buff it or otherwise tweak it to make things more interesting.

P2 siege workshop with either access to bolts or access to a unique siege upgrade would be great. This would be all that is needed to set mace aside as a siege civ.

I think storehouses should remain in territory.

Macedonia used the siege towers very well, maybe a technology that allows to build siege towers on p2 and soldiers can build siege towers in neutral territory or also enemy.

[vinme]

On 28/06/2023 at 9:45 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

not a fan of the metal trickle idea. The mace team bonus is already fine IMO, maybe just buff it or otherwise tweak it to make things more interesting.

P2 siege workshop with either access to bolts or access to a unique siege upgrade would be great. This would be all that is needed to set mace aside as a siege civ.

I think storehouses should remain in territory.

idk if you read what i wrote, but problem with buffing it is making the prospect of siege spam op.
it may give mild advantage when you make 2-4 rams all game, but if you make 15-20 bolts, thats a completely different story, now instead of making men, you are investing in bolts as a source of dps.

[borg-]

Edit.

Edited July 2, 2023 by borg-

[Dizaka]

I have an idea.  I think I've been proposing it for a year:

P2 Siege Camps that count towards P3 like the maurya elephants stables do for elephants.

That is all, IMO.

@BreakfastBurrito_007

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Yeah I agree with @Dizaka. I think mace don't really need as much a rework as sparta did. I would be happy with something like this, possibly also with either a technology or bolts available in p2.