Sundiata

Triskelion. The symbol doesn't belong to any one civilization in particular, pre-dates Celts and was widely used across Europe. It's just popularly associated with Celts, as they did use the design and it remains popular among neo-pagans today. Nothing wrong with using it for both civs, but its use as the Gauls emblem, as well as a Briton prop could indeed cause confusion. Maybe the civ-emblem itself could get a redesign? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion

I think the double mention of Toltecs is a typo, and @Trinketos meant Tupi? Also *Puebloans (from New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and Colorado) , and not Pueblans (from the Free and Sovereign State of Puebla, Mexico) One other possible suggestion could be to call the mod "Nuevo Mundo", instead of "Pre-Colonial Mod"?

Sundiata thinks Wow has very nice idea stirring in Wow's head...

Hmmm, actually... There seems to be a total lack of Hellenistic influence in 0AD's Mauryas... Mauryas ruled over Greek Kingdoms and are known to have employed Greeks as ambassadors. They had specific names for Greeks, like Yona (from Ionian), Yavana and Yonaka. So perhaps something like the Bactrian Thureophoroi/Yona Skirmishers as 3rd phase elite merc? Deccan Tribal Levy sounds nice... Looking forward to checking it out

Ah, public outcry saved the day. For now... But beware, they'll be back, under a different name...

The Roman pilum is an eventual must, being able to throw one pilum per minute or something, only if not already in melee combat and an enemy is at a certain minimum distance. IMO balancing shouldn't be used as an excuse to hoodwink civilizations. Especially not some of their most iconic aspects. Might as well forget about the phalanx because it would be too "op"... Rather, flesh out the civs as completely as possible (within reason of course), and then see where you need to tinker in the stats to balance things. Not remove historical weapons, armour or entire units for the sake of... Especially the Roman civilization is one of the most well-known and well-studies civilizations of all. These guys should feel a little bombastic and completely fleshed out. Every other civ should be benchmarked by the completeness of the Romans, where possible. When secondary attacks are implemented, many units across many civs could have them, for example archers using daggers in melee, instead of trying to shoot arrows at an enemy at 1 meter distance, or mahouts throwing javelins. Obviously secondary attacks should never be as powerful as a similar primary attack. For example an archer in melee with a dagger should always loose to a swordsman, but two or three archers in melee with daggers might stand a chance against a single swordsman. There are many ways of balancing things without gutting the historicity of the game, like costs, training times, prerequisites like technologies or buildings... Don't be scared to get creative. We have many different civs with widely differing cultures. Lot's of inspiration to draw from. I just wanted to say that I agree with almost everything @Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said. About phases, it would be ideal if they have a more clear visual distinction between them. Villages in village phase should feel villagey, towns like towns and cities should feel like bustling centers of culture and civilization. It would require a lot of work from the artists, I know. But it would be an awesome visual reward for phasing. Just as "important" in my opinion is that Civic Centers need to phase up individually, as was originally intended if I'm not mistaken. So, if you create new settlements around the map, they will start out as villages, even if you're "capital" is in city phase. This way you don't end up building city structures in the middle of nowhere (perhaps some military structures could be an exception). Strong core, weak countryside is intuitively stimulated. The strategic importance of you're "capital city" increases. Village phase CC's would cost significantly less, lower the threshold to expansion, but are also weaker and easier to capture. There is the tactical aspect, assessing an enemy's strength, as you can now easily discern what phase an enemy settlement is on, from the style of buildings. I would really love to see the above mentioned elements being developed, but the following suggestions are more of nice to have: Maybe a simple earlier phase can be added, to replace "nomad" mode. Call it "Settler Phase". You just get some people and a single cart that can be used as a mobile drop site, while you scout for a good location for you're first village. Only when you have enough resources you can research village phase and build your first CC. A later phase could be "Imperial Phase", for the non-Barbarian civs. Would be great for Single Player fun. Just make it unviable for Multiplayer (through an exorbitant cost) so it doesn't mess with balance in competitive games.

Interesting... Thank you! It's sooo frustrating when you want to read something but have to pay (a lot) for it (I'm sometimes lucky enough to find a way around it, but still). The internet is exploding with substandard information, advertising, porn, political propaganda and whatnot, all for free. But if you want to read something meaningful, academic, with actual substance, you have to pay... Like: "Hey, hey you! You're too poor to be smart! But don't worry, here's some spyware... Huhum, I mean social media, shirry advertizing, pictures of cats and some videos of Mia Khalifa"...

I got it from a PhD thesis by Sarah Schellinger: An Analysis of the Architectural, Religious, and Political Significance of the Napatan and Meroitic Palaces. It's basically a lengthy comparison between Ancient Egyptian and Kushite palatial architecture, and the evolution of Napatan and Meroitic palatial architecture more specifically. There's a lot of nice stuff in there... https://www.google.com.gh/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5-6ud5bLaAhVBHCwKHWfLAHsQFghlMA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftspace.library.utoronto.ca%2Fbitstream%2F1807%2F77480%2F3%2FSchellinger_Sarah_M_201703_PhD_thesis.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0pUlGlAoMO2KjCRDDVEXWU page 408 (or 426) I haven't come across the original source of that particular image though (Roccati 2013: 250, figure 5), but Alessandro Roccati is widely quoted by experts in the field. Here are some sources for the other images in that post, and further reading (good stuff.. I should have put the links in the previous post, but I forgot ..) https://www.sciencealert.com/nubian-funerary-artefacts-meroitic-texts-found-in-sedeinga-sudan https://canvas-story.bbcrewind.co.uk/sites/head-of-augustus/ https://www.openstarts.units.it/bitstream/10077/14297/1/ATRA_3_online-11_Baldi.pdf And a wider shot of the excavations at the Royal City, Meroë:

I'm still a fan of my poop-throwing macaques idea... Just throwing that out there...

That's basically my point. There should be no chimneys, or anything like it... The means of venting smoke would be to obscure to notice...

Nescio already got this one, just confirming. Typical "chimneys" as we know them today only became widespread on houses considerably after the timeframe of this game (which is different from AoE II). Romans seemed to use it, but not a lot. Pottery kilns, smelting furnaces and perhaps bakeries can make use of some kind of chimney, but even here, it wouldn't necessarily be visible in all civs. Most of the kilns/furnaces didn't actually reach that high (usually less than a man's height). In most cases (home cooking) smoke was just vented through a high window, or through (a simple opening in) the roof (or just cook outside, or in a room with a very light permeable roof of palm branches or something similar). Ancient roofing tiles are also somewhat permeable for smoke. In the case of thatch, the smoke from fires actually helps keeping bugs out of the roof, which could otherwise become infested with all manner of creatures. Using charcoal also reduces the amount of smoke and potentially dangerous vapours. Example: "Reconstruction of a roof with smoke-vent or skylight pan tile (opaion) from Acquarossa, Phase 3" (Etruscan): So, please no chimneys... Only the blacksmiths should have them (artistic license and recognizability)

Kushite champion archers fire at a rate of 0.5 sec! It looks a little ridiculous... Just mentioning. @stanislas69

Having the sun rotate around the map at the speed of 1 full rotation every hour or half hour would be pretty sweet, dynamically changing angles, having a low point, and a high point, representing "summer" and "winter".

I'm always for continually improving models... I'm not the one doing it though, so it's up to you guys... Understandable, but is it the best option? I noticed some considerable discrepancies in ground decals used for the same structures across civs. A lot seem to be missing. Like the houses of some civs have ground decals (for example: Carthaginians, Macedonians, Ptolemies and Iberians), and others don't (like Kushites, Mauryans, Gauls, Britons). Same for CC's, temples etc... I think all structures of all civs should have ground decals, as it really helps a lot with terrain integration. Structures without ground decals look a lot less rooted to the ground/unnatural.

The Kingdom of Kush: A Random Visual Reference Update You might have noticed that I'm taking a break from the Kushites, but that doesn't mean the research has ended. After the re-release of alpha 23, I'll post a list of some further suggestions to get this faction from 95% to 100%. In the meantime, have a look at some new finds, and a handful of higher quality versions of images shared before:

I pretty much liked all of those gameplay wishes...

Ah, yes, that is pretty awkward... I did not... Thank you

Some more random artists' interpretations: That's what reverse image searching is for. I do this very often before sharing images, to see them in the original context they were shared in, find out the back story, and find the highest quality version of the image available. Where I live, I don't have access to university libraries. I'd have to drive an hour to the University of Ghana at Legon, Accra, and they're not particularly known for their expertise in Celtic history... I could order copies of studies, but I'd have to pay money I don't have. I have to depend on the internet, but that's not a bad thing, as I'm often "lucky" enough to find scholarly publications on the subjects I'm reading up on, and quite a few of the images I share come from screenshots of images in these pdf's. For the Gauls, I felt satisfied enough with the images I found without diving into too many academic works (it's a very popular subject, and I've read about them more extensively in the past)... I think everybody actively contributing to the development of 0AD is aware of the need to be cautious with artists' interpretations, but they often provide good inspiration for models in-game, and are often discussed quite publicly in the forum (like now), where the balance between historicity and artistic license is constantly weighed. I guess the general rule of thumb is: when you have quality primary references, use those. When there aren't any available, do what makes sense for the time, place and context, when necessary (for example those structures that are mostly RTS-conventions like barracks, towers, archery range etc). That's why I didn't share the images of Roman structures, but only the local Gallic ones. Between the Gallic wars and the founding of Augustodunum in 15 BC, any significant Roman presence at Bibracte was confined to a very small window of time, and the Roman structures are clearly identifiably Roman: Care to expand? They did literally state "We know almost nothing of the Gallic period Paris, and we had to ask the historians to take biases, which is always a delicate position in their profession. We have therefore chosen to place this small town on an island like « l’ile de la cité » without situate precisely. One of the challenges was to recreate an anarchic but coherent planning. This stage was carried out by my team in Casablanca, in 4 months by 10 people. This 3D web model is a part of the Paris 3D saga." It's just to provide an idea about what the oppidum of the Parisii may have looked like, not an absolute reconstruction. That's why I had to laugh with the Corent sanctuary seen among the models. Thank you ! I did read it some months ago via the profile of Shogun 144. I was pleasantly surprised, and impressed that he wrote that more than 10 years ago! There are some common mistakes/confusions, but it's quite a decent write up, even mentioning some things that still aren't widely known/quoted today. I did squeak when I read: She did no such thing! I was like: Petronius was totally surrounded after withdrawing his army to Premnis in the northernmost portion of Kush, close to the Roman border, after the sack of Napata. In the ensuing negotiations with Augustus, Amanirenas' representatives secured all of her demands. Augustus even handed Premnis (Qasr Ibrim) back over to the Kushites, my very strong guess, in return for the safe passage of Petronius and his army back to Roman Egypt... In fact, if I recall correctly, as a result of the whole war, the "Aethiopian" (read Kushite) population of Southern Egypt (which was substantial), wasn't even ruled by the Romans, but were governed by a Kushite governor, and they were also left in charge of the temples. As it often was under the Ptolemies, substantial parts of southern Egypt became a sort of buffer-zone with the Kushite state with a very delicate balance.

@Trinketos A very handsome list! I never even heard of some of them... All very interesting histories, it seems. I know it's a long list and huge task to get done, but I'm a dreamer, and just wanted to suggest three more candidates for a more rounded representation of Pre-Columbian civilizations: Teotihuacan (one of the most significant Pre-Columbian civilizations ever, very influential/ancestral/ maybe too old?) Ancestral Puebloans, sometimes referred to as Anasazi (pretty unique stuff here, and their descendants are still around today, some still living in ancient pueblos) Mound Builders (together with the Puebloans they provide some representation for the USA, might generate wider interest) I'm aware that Mound Builders and Puebloans are generic names referring to any number of cultures, but since they share a certain material culture and are usually discussed on a whole, it could work out quite well.

Just scale it down to the size you need, lol! Shorter walls, smaller courtyard, whatever you like.. It was just a suggestion though I think it has a more noble/princely/oppidum feeling. The current CC looks more like a (somewhat well off) farmstead.

Here's a very simple quick mock up I made loosely based on the Pâture du Couvent at Bibracte What do you guys think? Terracotta roof tiles are known from a number of Celtic sites, but they are rare, so wooden shingles (and perhaps planks) would be better roofing material.

I was wondering that, since I haven't actually seen it in perspective True, I was just thinking, since it's a potential wonder it could be a little punchier. If you or someone else decides to make the sanctuary of Gournay sur Aronde as a new temple, the red pillars could be repeated there. In Genava's image of the marketplace, it also has a red band running across the lower part of the outside walls. If you magically suddenly have nothing to do, a new Gallic CC based more on de Pâture du Couvent at Bibracte, you could also incorporate some reds there? Just suggestions though. I know you're a busy man. I don't consider these things all that important, just some personal preferences of mine

Perhaps the pillars could be a tad bigger, rounder, and painted red, like the wall, also extending the red colour to the supporting logs of the superstructure above the gate? And sizing up to fit the footprint befitting of a wonder?

@stanislas69 Really cool! Good enough as wonder material? It has my vote What's up with the green walkway though?