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Original counter system was very messy (like Empire Earth II) In AOE series (specially in the 3, but maybe it's the most unbalanced) you have some civs that miss some unit lines, and some of them are trained and are only useful for some civs (like champions, cav archers...) In my flavor, I would redesign champions as unique units, not as an enhanced elite unit: generally a slighty better unit (not always) with some special feature (special countering, fast creation, regeneration, etc..) Also, I think that counters could be introduced in a easier way...: instead of making every unit a class, play only with 4 (6) main standards: - Heavy infantry (melee infantry) - Light infantry (ranged infantry) - Heavy cavalry (melee cavalry) - Light cavalry (ranged cavalry) - and Siege and Suport ... then you avoid situations like skirmishers good against spearman but not against swordman (¿?). I could explain further my own idea if you want. Every unit should have a role and right now don't know if every one it's clear.. Why I should train cav spearman over a cav swordman?

In others classics rts games is: Spearmen = Anti-cavalry (some "special" units can tank also) Swordsmen = Anti-Spearmen (some "special" units can kill ranged) Ranged = Anti-Spearmen and Swordsmen Cavalry = Anti ranged units (kill some light infantry as Swordsmen due to its higher hp)

I agree with @av93 there must be main standards classes. Calvary beat misile infantry and support units and some siege units infantry can beat cavalry and siege units except may be splash area damage units misile can beat infantry. Siege can deal with mostly of classes but are slower and no much armor, but siege can deal with defenses and buildings. Champion must be advanced unit with special features. But can be countered by their class. same for heroes. In AOK for example Condottiero is the version of Champion ( last upgrade of swordsman) with bonus vs gun power units. Plumed Mayan, Longbow , Rattan Archer are different version of basic archer with own bonuses. The Mayan is fast and infantry killer, longbow have very long range and Rattan is heavy armored archer that can tank in a siege attack. and there are units can counter their natural counter like Cataphract have bonus vs infantry or Genoese Crossbow with bonus vs cavalry. http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_Class:_Unique_Unit http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Unique_Unit_(Age_of_Empires_II)

Other than the unit cost changes, I like where that counter system is going overall.

Well my suggestion would be something like this: HEAVY INFANTRY Spearman: Bonus against both cavalry. Role: Basic unit available to every civilization. Main unit and useful to protect other units from cavalry. Meatshield Swordsman: Higher base attack than spearman, bonus against heavy infantry. Role: Break melee infantry fronts, kill unprotected units (light infantry, support or siege) Pikeman: High HP and Armor, low attack (if no formations are implemented, every unit gets a bonus attack aura for other pikes). Bonus against cavalry. Slow movement. Role: Protect ranged infantry, capture or when massed act like a powerful slow spearhead. -LIGHT INFANTRY: Skirmisher: Shortest range. Higher base attack Role: Basic ranged unit. Useful against everything, but with low range it's the most vulnerable unit. The best ranged unit to deal against both cavalry types Slinger: Medium range. Bonus against heavy infantry Role: Better than skirmishers against heavy infantry. Should win skirmishers by range, but they damage between them could be on pair. Archer: Long range. Low attack and bonus against Light Infantry. Role: Kill skirmishers and slingers and support long range attack. All light infantry get a bonus against Light Cavalry. -HEAVY CAVALRY Sword cav: Fast. Bonus against light infantry Role: Kill light infantry (altough spear cav should be better), raid, and maybe catch light cavalry Spear cavalry: Tankier armour, HP, Good attack. Slower Role: Better frontline cavalry than swordman cavalry. -LIGHT CAVALRY Skirmisher cavalry: Good damage. Low range Role: Hit and Run, effective against everything, but could be killed if get caught or by ranged units (so it would be mainly anti heavy infantry) Archer cavalry: Low damage, Long range. Bonus against light units (both infantry and light cavalry). Less HP than skirmisher cavalry Role: Hit and Run from distance, but worst DPS against heavy. Loose against ranged infantry if gets caught in range (specially against archer, with same range) All defensive buildings get bonus against Light Cavalry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Then, I would make Spearman and Skirmisher infantry and Skirmisher cavalry costing only food and wood (Trash unit). More uncommon units could cost food/wood and metal (no stone for siege or slingers, only for buildings). I would change hacking/pierce/crush to Melee/Ranged/Siege. (I think it could be easier to balance and to think, although hybrid damage could be special feature for some units) *I know that there's some historical things... some slinger could out range archers, and the spear cavalry role resembles more a medieval knight-like... but I think that is somewhat cohesive system.

Yeah, Siege Walls aren't really that big of a deal to prevent the Romans from having the Sentry Tower. It isn't even that big of a deal for me if the Romans can't build the Sentry Tower, since I don't really use them. It just seems like a waste for them to not be buildable when the model is available. Also, the Entrenched Army Camp could use some attention, the order of the units in the training list is different from the Barracks and the Eques Socius (Italian Allied Cavalry) was never added to the training list.

Hey guy. I remove the Greek architecture auto-research tech for Hellenic civs. Instead, I make it a aura, and then I make the Stoa show up in skirmish maps. As long as the Stoa stands, the Greek Architecture civ bonus is given to the player. This is part of my quest to give each civ a unique thing at the start of the match. The Stoa is achieved with a skirmish object -- default_stoa.xml. Some civ already have unique things at the start, others do not. Athenians: Stoa Britons: War Dog Carthaginians: ? Epirotes: Stoa Gaul: Druid Iber: Stone Walls, 1 free sheep Macedonians: Stoa Mauryans: Worker Elephant Persians: 1 extra free cavalry unit Ptolemies: ? Romans--Imperial: ? Romans--Republican: 1 extra free swordsman Seleucids: 1 extra free cavalry unit Spartans: Stoa, 1 free Spartiate Thebans: Stoa

Map: mainland Players: mr_harry vs fatherbushido Summary: a classic 1v1. Rome vs Britons (civ picked in the gamesetup). I posted it mainly for the cav rush of mr_harry wich did a very good unit control imo. Then the game will turn to a big frontline battle. commands.7z

The fundamental problem is that our civilisations don't have enough units, on the whole, since not all of them have a basic spearman or a basic swordsman (and it gets worse when you consider champions).

I think you are using wrong terms. Current way is with stats-only, with a couple exception. Old way is with hard-counters --attack bonus and penalty.

Flaming arrows make even less sense, throwing a rock at a house is going to shatter tile, plaster, splinter wood and chip stone. To make something as uncommon as flaming arrows and make it a common technology would be a disservice to the games intended historical accuracy. That should only be an Iberian skirmisher tech

Would be cool to add them as the beginning of the game.

Can your friend attach attach her system_info.txt, interestinglog.html, and mainlog.html please ? See GameDataPaths and ReportingErrors