Leaderboard

Hi all, (if you dont want to read all, see my boltshooter configuration in green below) Synopsis : After quick discussions in the lobby between 2 games (not easy to expose all in 1 min). I take the time to justify maybe the best thing to do with bolt-shooters. Introduction : We all know that 0ad games nowadays start with a grow pop spam to converge later into a battle of champions with a human train of traders in the backyard .One can think that the only reason is that champions are OP for the price they cost .. It is almost false and it's certainly not the main reason. The mainly reason has nothing to do with those 4 ressources shown on the screen. It is BRAIN ressource. Indeed, in a game, one are limited by the number of actions one can operate on the game. The best the player is, the more he can operates good moves and decisions. Take even the TOP5 best players, during a battle, none of them will get bored manipulating a set of cavalry + skirmishers + spearman + swordman + archers + siege units (to destroy the nearest ennemy tower). Though, a good CPU will do it very well and over-come an army of champs for the same amount of ressources. If one extends this fact to its limit, one sees the chariot spam syndrom : A bunch of chariots can do everything even destroy a fortress. Its expensive, its not efficient .. okay.. but omg, its so EASY for an human brain .. the ennemy will start to have head aches thinking how he can counter this parad of chariots with a composite army. In other words, the chariot spammer wins because he had free his brain from lots of operations while the other one will even forget to build, grow or work ! Idea : to dismiss the champs-spam strategy (which kills the gameplay) one needs at least 1 unit which has some counter value. It means that for a given price, it is better to use the counter unit rather than any other unit . Exemples : spearman vs Champs Cavalery , skirmishers vs Spear Champs , cavalery vs Sword Champs. By now, NO units can counter Chariot Champs , their long range and fast escape make it very hard for any spear units to reach them (and even more all together !). Solution : By now, the bolt-shooter might be the only unit which will be able to kill a chariot in a 1v1 . But , unfortunately, a bolt shooter is : expensive , 2 pop using , firing every 5 secs only, weak, slow to move and to deploy ... in other words totaly USELESS as it will impossible for an human brain to use them correctly against any army : as soon deployed, the chariots fly away, and/or some cheap units came to hack them down in 3 secs. For that price all pragmatic players will buy 2 more champs! --> So the bolt-shooters should be powered up and become the new OP unit in 0ad21 ? Certainly not. Bolt-shooters should be designed for 1 purpose : + Weaken a bunch of immobil units on a long distance (basicaly a bunch of firing chariots) And NOT : - Destroy any units in an eyeblink (like Roman boltshooters did in an older version) - Crush down towers and buildings from out-ranged distances --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Therefore , here is my configuration proposition for bolt-shooters : > bigger range to balance the annoying deployment time (at least bigger range than the chariots) : 80-90meters (minimum range of 5 meters) > more pierce attack for a the same given reloading time to balance the cost and the 2 pop : 200-300 pierce / every 5 sec > no crush damage at all , it should not replace the catapults in destroying buildings : 0 crush > the arrow has to punish only a bunch of immobil units packed together : projectil speed has to be lowered and its path should not be straight ( but slightly more like the one of the catapult bullet) , this way, a moving unit will not be killed. > no splash damage and average accuracy : its has to be less accurate than an archer but more like a skirmisher > take less place : even if their shoot range turns better, the disposition of many boltshooters should not be too much spread due to lack of space. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With this configuration, normaly you can create a counter force against army of chariots without replacing an OP unit in 0ad20 by another one in 0ad21. The bolt-shooters will be used like a strong defence units (against arrow harasement) for an army of walking soldiers gone for expedition ; it will take back its role as told in history books : Like the deadly unit behind the troops killing the formations of archers on the first lines of the ennemy ! Good night

very nice, I blanketed all the textures with the one normal and spec map and it calmed them down enough to fall into place with the rest of the Gaul pack. It's going to need its own Ofc , but I'd like to hear what you guys think, the larger tiles with and without the moss are my favorite atm

@LordGood Everything's mine and made from scratch

Hmm, I like your thinking for vanilla game. But I will go different direction if and when VisibleGarrisonPointClasses patch is (finally...) committed to the game. Bolt shooter were basically not use on the battlefield very often even by Romans. They were used in sieges and especially in defenses! On walls, on ships, in towers. So... When VisibleGarrisonClasses is committed, I will differentiate the bolt shooter by making it the siege weapon that can: Pack and move in a cart (I will make stone thrower a stationary siege weapon, like I already do with the Onager, build by soldiers in the field) Garrisonable on ship decks, on fortesses, and on walls and towers (stone throwers cannot) This makes them function 100% different from stone thrower and make them a defensive artillery. EDIT: Also, remember there are 2 type of splash damage: area and linear. Bolt shootr have linear "splash" damage already. So maybe make this more useful in some way.

Civ specific wooden towers, easy enough. They're cute aren't they? haha

We haven't decided for sure yet, but I'm personally leaning towards wanting it to be Ulysses since we've added the Herocide/Regicide game mode. It would also give us a chance to discuss briefly how the names of heroes/gods differed between Greek/Latin, and mention how in some languages the one version is used and in others the other. It's always nice when the name gives us a chance to teach about history

Started a new map, I call Blue Nile. It is another nomad-style map, 4 player. It represent the Blue Nile valley in today Sudan and Ethiopia. Players start the match as colonists in dire straights. No resources, only some supplies nearby. Must travel out of the mud flats and find a suitable place to settle nearer fresh water (the Blue Nile River) and more plentiful resources (wood, animals, farmlands, foraging). I have 4 maps I have start that I will not be able to finish before the next alpha (and the first release of DE). Adriatic Coves (4), Blue Nile (4), Corinthian Isthmus (8), and Scythian Steppes (6). It's a lot easier to make 2 player map, lol. Corinthian Isthmus (8) will be the biggest challenge. I hope to complete all by Alpha 23, but maybe not. Goal is to have a lot more skirm map selection for 4,5,6+ players. I also want to overhaul Bactria (2), since it look kind of unfinished.

@LordGood You mean those ?

It's not as if we have to go that way, but seeing as Johnathan doesn't have a good internet connection at the moment the question is moot anyway.

Well, considering it's a big arrow, perhaps it can hit more than one person? And seeing as we don't have morale etc, a small amount of hitpoints lost can symbolize the effect of seeing the guy next to you fall down (I guess that could apply for everything to some extent, but sometimes things are needed/must be motivated by gameplay reasons ), or for that matter that you might stumble as you try to get over his dead body or something.

defaul iron/monochrome shield. Use this for mods, or for gaming, dont forget give thank you. -Lion

Inspire by another post on the forum (I lost the link), I made flaming pigs and put them into Delenda Est. They are quite funny. Player can train pig from corral and slaughter it for food or use 'Upgrade' button to set the pig on fire. The pig gets set on fire and can move 2x faster now. It has a 'Flaming Pigs' aura that reduce attack and max health of nearby enemy elephants (war elephants and undomesticated elephants) by -20%. The inflamed pig loses health and dies within 5o seconds. It even have damage variations at 80%, 50% and 20% health (it start to look like crispy bacon). Mauryans do not get access this pig, because they are friends to animals.

I

Gauls need a new fortress; this one is teeny weeny. ... dont worry guys I'm on it

Medieval and Gaul buildings do look pretty similar don't they. I'm not sure if I can help that, or if it needs helping, really. As Germanic Celt has shown us the sea of thatch roofs is a bit of a misconception.

Hi devs, I'm amazed at the game, and as a OOP dev, I'ld like to propose and contribute to to balance the factions, in 2 aspects regarding to Rome's underpowered profile; 1 -> Divide et Impera I know that the Rome's "Divide et Impera", the ability of Rome's generals to turn enemy units into allies was not implemented yet, and I think that would be the key ability of this faction to win in late game, since Rome seduced conquered territories and gave them seats in the senate or even integrate the cultures of occupied factions into their own. I would want to help implement that ability, since that would be the key to Rome's way of winning; power through wealth and alliances, like they did. 2 -> Castrum Vallum and Champions The main point on building a Castrum Vallum is to place soldiers into enemy territory and attack by unprotected flanks so you can win. In current metagame, without champions you don't have a chance to win using that strategy, so the use of this strategy, as it is of this faction, is really scarce, since not only you can't win with it it, but also it's very weak in terms of health so you'll be also giving another weapon to the enemy. I propose to help fix this. Thanks for your time

These are all license compatible of course? (Have to ask)

That's something I'd like to "fix" too. Also if the pikemen in syntagma could only fight in front of them that would be better. It makes it odd with all the crossed pikes and it denies flanking. And yes, you need more than one or use some spear lines to enlarge the front. With formation being less manœuvrable (like with a turning speed to keep their bonuses) this would make it even more interesting and would allow to break some spear/pike formation from the back with cavalry for example (maybe not killing everyone without much losses but crushing in a sandwish attack)

It's a pile of rocks now lol, well.. I suppose I've worked with less. It would be nice to visually differentiate the Greek states too, especially before building wonders.

Previous alphas also used to have at least 2 active artists. Things slow down from time to time of course, and were not going to be debuting any more building sets. I don't like the idea of withholding the completion of this set to pad the next alpha, myself, but I suppose it's the best solution the situation has to offer.

That is why you need more than just 1 syntagma and game need battalions for proper battle lines.

Looks good Lion. Maybe a little unfinished. Keep going with it.

Alexander...

Mini towers... It's not bad idea, upgrade between minitower and guard tower

Yepp, however no internet means far fewer distractions... How do you think it been so productive these past few days? Haha

new shield actual Composition without effects

Towers could be like in AoM in which you could upgrade wooden towers to watch towers and then to guard tower by using some resources. I think this is cool because you don't have to destroy the previous tower to build the new one, and it's also faster. Per example, Iberians towers are really overpowered compared with the others so I suggest that the 10 men tower should be an upgrade of the age III. I just give my opinion. => => Sorry for this little off topic.

Just a few words about Phalanx and Syntagma formations from what I experienced in Sybillae Vox. Remember my mod is way slower and have a bigger focus on unit positionning. The Phalanx is not deep, usually 2 to 4 lines in the games I played. Considering the spear range, the first two lines are fighting, the deeper lines are there for formation durability (it could add a push bonus like an attack bonus for the first line anyway). So disrupting a spear line can be rather quick by making a hole in the middle. The Syntagma is deep, 4x4 for the minimum requirement (that I made). The pike is way longer so almost everybody is fighting, at least the 3 front line. Put a Syntagma in an open door and none shall pass for example. This is especially true against swordmen who have even shorter range (not in the vanilla game), they just get impaled before getting in range. Individually pikemen are almost useless but get a strong bonus when in Syntagma (or lesser in a line/phalanx).

i like those...

Game should implement ability like God Powers. That way something like Pax Romana can be a God Power casted by the player that makes a 5 minute ceasefire. They could use some of the aura code maybe (not sure), and then add a timer function to the schema. Just idea (and some feature creep, lol).

I am skeptical of the aura changes, Testudo formation isn't going to be replaced by Pax Romana, since formations simply haven't been fully implemented yet. Also Pax Romana and Romanization are Roman Empire concepts not Roman Republic concepts, so Pax Romana and Romanization simply don't work with the Roman Republic, especially since the Roman Empire is planned to be included as a separate faction for Part 2 Empires Besieged.