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  1. Welcome

    1. Announcements / News

      The latest. What is happening with 0 A.D. Stay tuned...

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    2. Introductions & Off-Topic Discussion

      Want to discuss something that isn't related to 0 A.D. or Wildfire Games? This is the place. Come on in and introduce yourself. Get to know others who are using 0 A.D.

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    3. Help & Feedback

      Here is where you can get help with your questions. Also be sure to tell us how we are doing. What can we improve? What do you wish we could do better? Your opinion matters to us!

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  2. 0 A.D.

    1. General Discussion

      This is the place to post general stuff concerning the game. Want to express your love for hoplites or find people to play the game with? Want to share your stories about matches you have played or discuss historical connections to the game? These and any other topics which are related to the game, but don't have their own forums belong in this forum.

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    2. Gameplay Discussion

      Discuss the game play of 0 A.D. Want to know why the game plays the way it does or offer suggestions for how to improve the game play experience? Then this is the forum.

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    3. Game Development & Technical Discussion

      A forum for technical discussion about the development of 0 A.D. Feel free to ask questions of the developers and among yourselves.

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    4. Art Development

      Open development for the game's art. Submissions, comments, and suggestions now open.

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    5. Game Modification

      Do you have any questions about modifying the game? What will you need to do what you want to? What are the best techniques? Discuss Modifications, Map Making, AI scripting and Random Map Scripting here.

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    6. Project Governance

      Forums for decision-making on issues where a consensus can't be reached or isn't sufficient. The committees are chosen from among the official team members, but to ensure an open and transparent decision process it's publically viewable.

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    7. 600
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  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Well, a big part of "war" and "strategies" is logistics, and defending supply lines gives a depth beyond smashing against towers and fortresses. Funnily enough yesterday I was thinking about dropsites having a resource count and maximum capacity. You would indeed need to think how to automatise stuff to reduce micro as much as possible. For more economic buildings, just go more realistic: a mine could be built on some mineral resources (like in Rise of Nations), what you extract is ores, then a smelter or foundry would give you the metals, which can be sent to the blacksmith, or others. Maybe that's too much, but games like Caesar III work like that. For example, the idea was that wood can be stored in some warehouse, from there it can be sent to construction, or exported, or if you build a woodshop it can make furniture, which can be exported for more money, or sent to the market, which your population aquires, again maybe a bit too much, but that's the idea. Check that game maybe.
    • @Thalatta, while I somewhat agree with you, the truth is that the AI has some serious flaws, and games against it start to feel samey after a while.  Case in point is the 1v3 game that @ittihat_ve_terakki has shared. The AI is just plain stupid, doesn't upgrade its units and wastes them frequently on useless attacks. Only after reaching the City phase, the attacks start to become huge. Any experienced RTS player that sticks with the game for a couple of weeks will be able to crush Medium Petra.
    • Exactly. I've actually thought about all this the other way around: I wanted to introduce "upgradeable" Achievements (which I enjoyed in games from Kingdom Rush to Sins of a Solar Empire), and at the same time I came across difficulty levels and PvP focus comments, so it all fell into place. I think from combining all these problems and views, a nice solution that makes everyone (or most) happy can be achieved.
    • Thanks for the comprehensive answer! @Thalatta Indeed, there are many different playing styles - from competitive MP to relaxed SP (my favourire as an elderly guy). My intention was to start a discussion on naming the various playing levels and referring to them in a way that does not discourage people from trying out the game. Probably too much concerns as everyone should be able to find out that there is an easier setting if a game is too difficult as a beginner when set to "medium", same as there are means to make it more difficult (increased diffulty setting, more adversaries, higher speed, less resources etc.). Just, when initially "opening the box" default setting should be such that people can apprecviate the beauty of the game and its historicaly-appealing gameplay while challenges increase slowly.
    • The problem is that Very Easy and Easy should indeed be for kids, elders, and anyone who is in it for history, graphics, whatever, but just doesn't want to get rushed in 10 or 15 mins. Sandbox is not the solution because apparently not much happens, and some time ago someone said “the jump between Sandbox and Very Easy is too big”. So, it does seem that an extra easy level is needed, combined with that Normal shouldn’t be "for players having reached some intermediate playing level", or "about the level a somewhat competent player can beat consistently after 1-3 tries". Competent for 0 A.D. then? And measured by whom? Normal is not this in RTS, there's always certain implied equivalence between games, and this is a known issue, it has been brought up, I remember someone saying that it's the early attacks that get the newbies. And, again, the game states "the default AI level is quite challenging for new players", something I've never seen in any game before, a completely artificial situation, one shifts labels and no such thing happens, no clarification needed, there shouldn't be one in the first place. I don't understand the need to tell people that never had any problem in Normal/Medium in other RTS to stay in Easy or Very Easy until they git gud, and leave without a reasonable challenge those who might be below that level. Normal is so not normal that training times are around 3 times faster when compared to basic units and techs from StarCraft 2 in Brutal, which is ludicrous. I don't think most people wanting to explore the game in general would find that enjoyable. I think I’ve said it already: default options should be friendly for beginners, the vast majority of which will be more (or only) interested in SP. This paragraph might seem a bit offtopic, but I’ll connect everything with the difficulty levels. As known, this game caters too much to PvP: clickiness, rushes and tryharding have priority over strategy, tactics, and city-building. When someone complains, they have been told they want “a certain game experience that this project doesn't cater to”. There are many problems with that if the idea is to grow the game. Over 90% of gamers care only about SP (AoE numbers, similar for most). On the AoE forum, someone asks “why do developers struggle to design good RTS?”, and someone gives 7 points: half baked single player campaign, missing skirmish mode, missing editor tools, cliche soundtrack, making only multiplayer focused game, blatantly copying other games in genre and cheating AI. For 0 A.D., I think the MP issue is among the most blatant ones (not to mention the lack of a proper campaign, but I think other things should be fixed before that). It cannot be that if some tech is not optimal for MP then there are proposals to remove it. As someone said, they are there for SP, and that’s not a minor thing, at all. Just ignore the icon. Or better, propose how to make it interesting also for MP. Of course, there’ll be people saying “these changes are not part of the proposal and style that 0 A.D. seeks”, which doesn’t tend to be true if one actually reads the 0 A.D. Vision Document. Coming back to difficulty levels, maybe the AI is hard to code, but, as mentioned, people don’t like cheating AI (or advantages). I wonder if those gathering rate and trade gain modifications can be removed (except maybe on the hardest levels, if needed for a challenge), and the AI to be about when to attack, army sizes, defenses, and how efficiently other things are handled (techs, eco, etc). If Easy is the usual Medium, then that should be Normal, Very Easy should be Easy, and the apparent gap with Sandbox could be filled with a new Very Easy, and maybe another Extremely Easy, since the now nameless hardest level could acquire an Extremely Hard label. Maybe research, training and building rates should be independent speed options, and could be labelled as Normal 4x or 3x present times, some name for a possible 2x, and a Competitive 1x present times, to be used in PvP as it stands now. Regarding the speed of the game in general, I think barely slower would be more attractive to most, for example a Normal game speed of 0.8x the present one, making a Competitive 1.25x the present 1x, and 2.5x would be the present 2x Insane. To simplify things, “Presets” could be used, the "Normal" one selecting all Normal options, and the same with “Competitive”. All this not only makes the game more palatable for new players that will try things with default Normal settings, but also doesn’t change absolutely anything as things stand now if the Competitive Preset is selected. Besides, I think there's a way to incentivise people to play with Competitive Presets, with the hope that then they’ll have a go at MP (having more players in general should increase the ones going for MP anyway), and that is with Achievements. They are fun and addictive to get, and are good content for SP, giving objectives to be achieved in many possible ways. Maybe accounts or profiles would need to be introduced, so under a given one all played games would count for the Achievements. Each Achievement would be some nice icon, which would get decorated with background wings and lightning bolts (I have an idea to model them on some Roman scutum emblems) if obtained for harder difficulties and speed combinations, respectively, possibly handled with different Presets.
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