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Stan`

===[TASK]=== Brit Wonder

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After the concerns raised by using the Uffington horse, I have been working on this for a while now, and I think I reached a satisfactory point. @LordGood @Genava55

screenshot0040.png

 

Some of the references I used

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8 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

 

The model looks nice. Gauls still getting Sanctuary at Corent? 

Coming up next after the building I started today ;)

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10 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The way the game uses Wonders makes me pull my hair out, so do whatever. lol

How does de uses them? Maybe a patch for @Nescio and the balancing team

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5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I wonder why an iron age Irish fort is less problematic than an the English iron age White Horse.

I really liked the idea of the Uffington White Horse but it does not justify the amount of resources, the garrison and the hp ;-) 

Maybe the White Horse could be used as a special "building", with specific strategical use (area bonus, territory extension etc.).

 

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20 minutes ago, Stan` said:

How does de uses them? Maybe a patch for @Nescio and the balancing team

In DE, Wonders have all the same effects: They increase max pop (aura), and they auto-research the 4th phase: Empire Phase. No real need to make them more special than that. They serve the same purpose for each civ. They aren't super healing centers. 1 or 2 have a special tech there, but that's very very targeted (one moves a normal tech from the basic temple to the wonder, and the other unlocks a special global aura, essentially a civ bonus). I can see making wonders have uniqueness if a civ has more than 1 of them though. For instance, if the Ptolemies could have access to 2 Wonders (Temple of Edfu and Lighthouse of Alexandria; can build only 1), then they'd have unique abilities or something (building a Wonder along the shoreline might be unique enough though). 

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1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

I really liked the idea of the Uffington White Horse but it does not justify the amount of resources, the garrison and the hp ;-) 

I just kind of see the Wonder as an abstraction rather than a useful structure. But I see what you mean in context of the Public mod.

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8 hours ago, Genava55 said:

I really liked the idea of the Uffington White Horse but it does not justify the amount of resources, the garrison and the hp ;-) 

Maybe the White Horse could be used as a special "building", with specific strategical use (area bonus, territory extension etc.).

 

Can you suggest a specific and a generic name for the wonder?

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Cantalon.

This is a word attested on an inscription about a religious ceremony. There are different readings but it could has designated a circular monument, from the Gaulish Cantos, the circle.

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That looks promising!

I actually like the Uffington White Horse too, though not as a Wonder, maybe not even as a structure: capture points and health do not make much sense to me for what's essentially a man-made terrain feature.

13 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The way the game uses Wonders makes me pull my hair out, so do whatever. lol

Not only Wonders, but also many special structures (Amphitheatre, Library, Lighthouse, Stoa, Theatre). And heroes. Anyway, it's part of the game, I suppose.

9 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

In DE, Wonders have all the same effects: They increase max pop (aura), and they auto-research the 4th phase: Empire Phase. No real need to make them more special than that. They serve the same purpose for each civ. They aren't super healing centers. 1 or 2 have a special tech there, but that's very very targeted (one moves a normal tech from the basic temple to the wonder, and the other unlocks a special global aura, essentially a civ bonus). I can see making wonders have uniqueness if a civ has more than 1 of them though. For instance, if the Ptolemies could have access to 2 Wonders (Temple of Edfu and Lighthouse of Alexandria; can build only 1), then they'd have unique abilities or something (building a Wonder along the shoreline might be unique enough though). 

Currently in 0 A.D. about half of wonders are great at healing, the other half isn't. D2660 attempts to unify that, but even that proves more controversial than I expected.

I'd be in favour of removing the resource trickle and healing, and of unifying the two pop cap auras into one (+10% instead of flat +10 and +40), making wonders have the same function for all civilizations.

A different approach would be to remove the healing and population auras from all wonders and instead give each wonder an unique global aura (cf. Civilization or Rise of Nations), e.g. Carthage −50% mercenary training time or Persia +10% territory influence radius.

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In Irish iron age monuments, there is a rite observed several times in the archeological records: most buildings are burnt after a while and some are rebuilt after that.

There is a theory suggesting a ritualistic destruction, maybe related to the death of a king.

Anyway, it could be fun from a gameplay perspective to sacrifice the wonder for a strategic goal (temporary bonus, special units etc. etc.).

Not necessarily to destroy the building, maybe the stone part can remain and the player can rebuild it on top with a discount.

Edited by Genava55

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Will the current wonder (Stonehenge) be kept in game as another special building?

Like Ishtar Gate of Persians. But it might not be the best example since you can garrison units in it. :S 

Edited by sauerkrautpie

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2 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

Will the current wonder (Stonehenge) be kept in game as another special building?

Like Ishtar Gate of Persians. But it might not be the best example since you can garrison units in it. :S 

It will be kept as an Atlas entity so it still can be used in scenarios :)

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Just now, Stan` said:

It will be kept as an Atlas entity so it still can be used in scenarios :)

Why not also keep it on Britons, i think it is one of the best wonders in the game. Of course it doesn't matter that much. 

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7 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

Why not also keep it on Britons, i think it is one of the best wonders in the game. Of course it doesn't matter that much. 

That's a good question. The reason it's phased out for that new building is for historical accuracy reasons :)

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On 4/5/2020 at 3:26 PM, Genava55 said:

I really liked the idea of the Uffington White Horse but it does not justify the amount of resources, the garrison and the hp ;-) 

Maybe the White Horse could be used as a special "building", with specific strategical use (area bonus, territory extension etc.).

 

That is great idea.

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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On 4/6/2020 at 4:31 AM, Genava55 said:

In Irish iron age monuments, there is a rite observed several times in the archeological records: most buildings are burnt after a while and some are rebuilt after that.

There is a theory suggesting a ritualistic destruction, maybe related to the death of a king.

Anyway, it could be fun from a gameplay perspective to sacrifice the wonder for a strategic goal (temporary bonus, special units etc. etc.).

Not necessarily to destroy the building, maybe the stone part can remain and the player can rebuild it on top with a discount.

Attack bonus maybe to the units.

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On 4/6/2020 at 6:31 AM, Genava55 said:

In Irish iron age monuments, there is a rite observed several times in the archeological records: most buildings are burnt after a while and some are rebuilt after that.

There is a theory suggesting a ritualistic destruction, maybe related to the death of a king.

Anyway, it could be fun from a gameplay perspective to sacrifice the wonder for a strategic goal (temporary bonus, special units etc. etc.).

Not necessarily to destroy the building, maybe the stone part can remain and the player can rebuild it on top with a discount.

 

On 4/6/2020 at 6:33 AM, Stan` said:

Could work pretty nice with freagarach's sockets :)

I was wondering if it would be possible to give some kind of effect (permanent or with time limit) upon the death of an object. For instance, the Roman heroes could have the "Self-Sacrifice"* bonus where when they are killed by the enemy, any nearby units would get an attack bonus for a specific amount of time. 

 

*I've read of the rare occurrence of Roman generals, upon seeing their men wavering, will strip themselves of their armor and weapons, say a prayer to Mars, and then charge on their horse into the enemy ranks, a self-sacrifice to the gods asking for victory. Their men seeing this, redoubling their efforts in a battle frenzy and turning the tide, winning the day.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone

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On 4/6/2020 at 4:56 AM, Nescio said:

A different approach would be to remove the healing and population auras from all wonders and instead give each wonder an unique global aura (cf. Civilization or Rise of Nations), e.g. Carthage −50% mercenary training time or Persia +10% territory influence radius.

Yep, this could work. Would also remove the "necessity" of making the Wonder a garrisonable object.

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