suggestions Thread for posting suggestions for Alpha 27.

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 minutes ago, DIYARAKUZA said:

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@Lion.Kanzen has mentioned earlier about factions having more of their cultural elements but there may be difficulty in determining functional purpose of such cultural elements in the game. I believe introducing a new resource could be a good framework to integrate them meaningfully.

excuses to have technologies and history.

[Stan`]

@asterix We already have most of this stuff... In a less fancy way, maybe.

[Duileoga]

On 10/04/2022 at 11:54 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

I forgot the campaigns.

 

@Stan`

We can start including some.

YES ,PLEASE

[asterix]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

@asterix We already have most of this stuff... In a less fancy way, maybe.

which is why to be more presentable if look at aoe 2 and starcraft 2 

[Stan`]

Well you can do plenty of fancy stuff with the UI as @maroder proved.

[Pepre]

Lesser distance between civic centres To be able to make settlements more closer to each other (change limit from 200m to 150m).

New health system Lower health points for units to make combat more realistic and more power for ranked units (quick kill against civilians and low ranked units).

Wider zoom out It would be very usefull in some occassions, especially in moutain areas but also for general map view.

More civilian buildings and miscellaneous objects Like roads, flags, statues, religiuos objects (like crosses, totems, kumirs) etc. gardens, punishment posts, prisons, shacks etc. Just for fun. Civic center could be just single building and other objects arround should be addable separately by player will.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Pepre

[real_tabasco_sauce]

possible forge balancing changes: 50 additional stone cost (to make furnace I guess), make research times more progressive (40sec for level 1, 50sec for level 2, 60sec for level 3 -> 20, 40, 60 sec)

Reason: not spamming 3 to 4 forges to get p3 faster, make p2 fights more practical, make initial upgrades more accessible with just 1 or 2 forges.

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

possible forge balancing changes: 50 additional stone cost (to make furnace I guess), make research times more progressive (40sec for level 1, 50sec for level 2, 60sec for level 3 -> 20, 40, 60 sec)

Reason: not spamming 3 to 4 forges to get p3 faster, make p2 fights more practical, make initial upgrades more accessible with just 1 or 2 forges.

Not really sure how a more expensive blacksmith is going to help. Forcing people to have a slower P2 does not solve the problem that P2 is literally irrelevant unless you plan on goin full merc and killing your opponent. The base issue is there are very few useful options in P2.

[Fabius]

Eg if i wanted to play Rome, what are my options in P2 to defeat my opponent? Do I try and raid him silly with horses? 

Gauls at least have fanatics which are rather fun though honestly I think to expensive to really be useful.

Britains have wardogs in P1 which lends some interesting flexibility into P2. Sparta has skiritai which are cool.

And other factions have mercs which as we are all know are quite strong though only Ptolemies, Carthage and Seleucids can pull that off well. That leaves Athens which has nothing, Iberians has nothing, Maurya and Persia also. Kush has macemen but thats it and they rather gimmicky.

[Fabius]

Also the logical response is 3 markets and then P3. Or more reasonably a blacksmith and two markets

[real_tabasco_sauce]

12 minutes ago, Fabius said:

Also the logical response is 3 markets and then P3. Or more reasonably a blacksmith and two markets

i guess this is true.

21 minutes ago, Fabius said:

Eg if i wanted to play Rome, what are my options in P2 to defeat my opponent? Do I try and raid him silly with horses? 

Gauls at least have fanatics which are rather fun though honestly I think to expensive to really be useful.

Britains have wardogs in P1 which lends some interesting flexibility into P2. Sparta has skiritai which are cool.

And other factions have mercs which as we are all know are quite strong though only Ptolemies, Carthage and Seleucids can pull that off well. That leaves Athens which has nothing, Iberians has nothing, Maurya and Persia also. Kush has macemen but thats it and they rather gimmicky.

there are actually plenty of p2 strategies and currently mercs are played exensively in p2. However that just speaks to the strength of merc cav and not the upgrades availability. Rome and athens are just lacking in p2 (for now at least). Kush are on par with mace as far as merc cav go. Both of those are not quite as OP as carthage.

Ptol players often build 2 forges, 1 market and can barter immediately to p3. I would think adding stone cost to blacksmiths might make this harder, but maybe it wouldn't be that effective. Honestly ptol just needs a nerf in general.

I do stand by the more progressive research times (20 sec lvl 1, 40, 60 etc).

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

35 minutes ago, Fabius said:

Also the logical response is 3 markets and then P3. Or more reasonably a blacksmith and two markets

why more than 1 market? usually I build 4 blacksmiths unless I am ptol and 2 if I am ptol. If my eco balance is good I often just forget to build a market (bad habit).

To be honest I think 50 stone would be a nice cost addition for blacksmiths which would make it harder to get upgrades while being on a metal only economy (merc cav lol). 

Nearly all civs actually have good options in p2 (athens and rome are the main worst ones imo), and I think these are diminished in a25 by how powerful the merc cav are. Even iberians can do a building rush if they are close to an enemy. Iberian monument can often mean that any fight over those forward buildings is winnable by Iberians if they put it in the right spot.

 

 

[Fabius]

16 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

why more than 1 market? usually I build 4 blacksmiths unless I am ptol and 2 if I am ptol. If my eco balance is good I often just forget to build a market (bad habit).

To be honest I think 50 stone would be a nice cost addition for blacksmiths which would make it harder to get upgrades while being on a metal only economy (merc cav lol). 

Nearly all civs actually have good options in p2 (athens and rome are the main worst ones imo), and I think these are diminished in a25 by how powerful the merc cav are. Even iberians can do a building rush if they are close to an enemy. Iberian monument can often mean that any fight over those forward buildings is winnable by Iberians if they put it in the right spot.

 

 

If you add a stone cost to blacksmith players simply build markets as those don't cost stone, its less useful than 3 blacksmiths by far, but since you rushing P3 it doesn't matter. 

Since Rome and Athens have the worst P2 options, how can one improve upon those?

A thought I have had for Rome is perhaps moving the Castrum to P2, meaningful access to veteran rank troops, chance at earlier pressure. 

Athens I dunno about, my sphere of interest centers in Rome.

Honestly why not make heroes P2 as well, at least we would get more benefit out of some of them, or make it graded so some heroes are P2 and some are P3.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

9 minutes ago, Fabius said:

A thought I have had for Rome is perhaps moving the Castrum to P2, meaningful access to veteran rank troops, chance at earlier pressure. 

This is actually a great idea. Its not something that could really help them win in p2 like merc-cav, but its something they could use to pressure and gain an advantageous position as the civs head into p3. Roman camps are kind of hard to time correctly and this would give them more options.

You make good points about the blacksmith cost too btw, I guess we will think about this more in a26 and see if people want blacksmith changes then.

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, Fabius said:

Since Rome and Athens have the worst P2 options, how can one improve upon those?

Athens is already changed quite a bit:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP26754

Should be much more interesting in a26.

[Fabius]

53 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

This is actually a great idea. Its not something that could really help them win in p2 like merc-cav, but its something they could use to pressure and gain an advantageous position as the civs head into p3. Roman camps are kind of hard to time correctly and this would give them more options.

You make good points about the blacksmith cost too btw, I guess we will think about this more in a26 and see if people want blacksmith changes then.

 

Great. There is the benefit of using army camps to guard key border areas against attack as well. I still wonder why they can't be built in ones own territory though, is that just for balance? 

What about siege walls, would it be to much to move those as well?

[Fabius]

1 minute ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Athens is already changed quite a bit:

https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP26754

Should be much more interesting in a26.

Great, that leaves only Rome then, "nod nod wink wink"  

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, Fabius said:

build markets as those don't cost stone

They don't cost stone, but they do cost 300 wood versus 200 wood.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

6 minutes ago, Fabius said:

I still wonder why they can't be built in ones own territory though, is that just for balance? 

yes. It is a turtler's dream lol. Imagine fort, towers, CC, and the army camp arrows all together. It would be a nightmare.

That being said, you can build a camp on your border and then later append territory towards it to keep it under your influence without garrisoning.

Edited May 11, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Fabius]

3 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yes. It is a turtler's dream lol. Imagine fort, towers, CC, and the army camp arrows all together. It would be a nightmare.

That being said, you can build a camp on your border and then later append territory towards it to keep it under your influence without garrisoning.

I am half turtle so yes lol. That being said, everything got dropped down to 11 pierce damage, I am not sure that the reasoning is quite so valid now two alpha's later.

[Fabius]

10 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yes. It is a turtler's dream lol. Imagine fort, towers, CC, and the army camp arrows all together. It would be a nightmare.

That being said, you can build a camp on your border and then later append territory towards it to keep it under your influence without garrisoning.

Sometimes I would simply delete my civic center and place a few camps then rebuild the civic center back again. Veteran Triari and A23 scorpions where awesome  

[Fabius]

16 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

They don't cost stone, but they do cost 300 wood versus 200 wood.

True, but you will be floating plenty wood anyway, 300 extra wood ain't that much.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

5 minutes ago, Fabius said:

True, but you will be floating plenty wood anyway, 300 extra wood ain't that much.

yeah tbh blacksmith cost should be considered after plenty of time spent in A26. Im still on the fence.

[Fabius]

2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

This is actually a great idea. Its not something that could really help them win in p2 like merc-cav, but its something they could use to pressure and gain an advantageous position as the civs head into p3. Roman camps are kind of hard to time correctly and this would give them more options.

Honestly I am hoping they try this for A26 in spite of feature freeze, would be nice to have something properly new for Roman players to play around with.

[Fabius]

On 04/05/2022 at 1:30 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

A tech which unlocks War Elephants for the Romans would be cool. Train them at the Fortress with a match limit. Maybe 5 or 10? The Romans indeed used War Elephants about a half-dozen times (a couple times against their own in civil wars).

Jumping back to this, what about instead of melee elephants it gives ranged elephants? We don't have a champion elephant archer yet, and a ranged elephant might be more beneficial to Rome than a melee elephant. One would have to create a model from scratch though, we only have Indian elephant archer models currently.