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Thracians and Illyrians Mod A25


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This thread is about making the mods for Illyrians and Thracians compatible for A25. By default they are compatible for A23 or A24, and these are the screenshots of the current structure roster and unit rosters. 

Illyrians:

image.thumb.png.3e61fcec23e0c05c154fc16646c245a1.png

 

Thracians:

image.thumb.png.b40fe7a9cffae45d4489dda3e7d4251b.png

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As you can see, the Thracians are much more complete in comparison and have their own buildings and unit models. Meanwhile, the Illyrian actors are just a combination of Spartan and other Hellenic models. The Thracians can already run on A25 without many errors whereas the Illyrians are unusable. Looking at the structure tree here are the proposed fixes / improvements for each of the 2 civs:

Thracians:

1. Give them some siege weapons

2. Fix training units and add units to correct buildings (with reference to the standard roster of A25)

3. Give them some champion units

4. Give them some team bonus

5. Give them their own wonder and more original unit models (thanks to the art team in advance)

Illyrians:

1. Fix all their bugs first!

2. Replace Spartan models with more Illyrian stuff (art team needed here as well)

 

I will be working on them for the next few weeks, as I have more urgent mods to take care of right now (bellum) before feature freeze. 

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4 minutes ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

What's the period why are talking about? Lysimachus' hellenic thrace or the Odrysians? Th Ardiaei for the illyrians?

Odrysian mainly with the Illyrians all the tribes and their influence outside the territory.

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Hi Yakaterina, I like it, cool concept.... Just one small suggestion on the Thracians...make all the roofs of all buildings, the same color... About those Illirians, I think that those guys did some piracy for some time under a  Pirate queen, I watched a Kings and Generals video in Youtube, telling the story.... It will be great to make an scenario base on that war... The Roman Republic end up sending an Army to Illiria to get them.....anyway...is looking nice.... I like them.... .I am new to the game, and fallen in love with the Atlas Editor. Been playing and experimenting, learning and at this moment, working on a Scenario, that I have been going around showing to other players here on the forum, for the last few weeks...to see if anyone with experience at modding, or designing scenarios can help me polish it, either by testing, or by programming, or art design... I named 0 AD Empires at War, and is for 8 players or one or a few players against the Al....the scenario is base on the central European and Mediterranean world, and look like a Huge caricature of all that region, is a gigantic map, and have the 8 main civilizations of the age that tend to be the most popular or mainstream, or most History books. I have the Illirians and Pirrians as buffer states in the scenario, so a few Gaul tribes spread across what is supposed to be France, Germany and the low countries... I don't have the Thracians because I understand they were Macedonians or very closed related to that civilization, and are therefore well represented by the Macedonians, Someone should make the Germans, some day...anyway......  I do really like what I see on those pictures of your  mod and would like to add those 2  to the 0 AD Empires at War scenario...what can you tell me about them as civilizations in the game,????? what kind of tech and military powers make them exalt as a Civ in the game????? And where can I download them??/ link please...... By the way, I want to take the opportunity to tell you that, a few days ago,I got in communication with one of your top modder's team members from the forum, but the man look very busy.... and he hasn't written me back...and I don't want to bug him neither.... But I do really want to let you know...that I'm looking for someone to help me polish the scenario for testing, fix any bugs, and for publishing on line, so people  from all over the world can play with it.... In my personal life I am a Commercial graphic designer and have my own print shop ( close  now by the way...because the virus) so I have been like a month working on the design of the map and have a few Ideas about the concept...that constantly change...but....I'm learning as I go.......and I do reckon that I do really need someone that know his ways around the game...for real man.... and know it's design engine, programming, triggering, and have a huge imagination... bigger and better organize than mine....mine is insane....LOL........so you know, to make it happens.... I'm putting a lot of love on it, man, for real......I do really think it will be a great Scenario because it will be educational for it's histical content, for all players from the start. Players will start with some buildings and units in the regions that really represent that region of the world....and a map like this one...if is done right by the right people...will kick ass....I'm sending you a preview...take a look and tell me what you think....what can make it better??....if you like what you see....let me know...and let's make it happens, tell some of your brothers at the forum about it..in case you can't, is cool with me...may be one or a few of your brothers may do...let them know........ and thanks for your time and attention Yakaterina....that name of your sound cool..where you from???? Here is a small preview of how is looking so far....thanks. 

0 AD Epires at War sample.jpg

611475323_GreeceandSparta.jpg

270898165_PersianEmpireMacedonGreeceandEgypt..jpg

Edited by Belisarius17
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9 hours ago, Belisarius17 said:

Hi Yakaterina, I like it, cool concept.... Just one small suggestion on the Thracians...make all the roofs of all buildings, the same color... About those Illirians, I think that those guys did some piracy for some time under a  Pirate queen, I watched a Kings and Generals video in Youtube, telling the story.... It will be great to make an scenario base on that war...

Thanks for the inspiration. I think we can make them  a naval civ like Carthage, but with an extra class of ships: pirates. These should move at much faster speeds than other ships and have multiple times the loot, but at the cost of lower health and armour?

9 hours ago, Belisarius17 said:

..I'm sending you a preview...take a look and tell me what you think....what can make it better??....if you like what you see....let me know...and let's make it happens, tell some of your brothers at the forum about it..in case you can't, is cool with me...may be one or a few of your brothers may do...let them know........ and thanks for your time and attention Yakaterina....that name of your sound cool..where you from???? Here is a small preview of how is looking so far....thanks. 

Thank you for your effort. I would review it as soon as possible if you send the files to me. 

My name is spelled YEkaterina. You can call me Kate if you want ; )

I am from the UK. You?

I would appreciate it if you write in paragraphs or bullet points instead of ellipsis. 

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4 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Please give me some heroes for the Thracians. 

  Duileoga proposed them:

On 29/09/2020 at 5:59 PM, Duileoga said:

Héroes ;(3)
(Reclutados en ;" ")
1." Teres I ";-------------------------------------(Τήρης )
2." Sitalces";-------------------------------------(Σιτάλκης)
3." Kotys I ";-------------------------------------(Κότυς)

I agree on those three, but I would consider Seuthes III as well. Maybe instead of Sitalces.

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For the Dacians, I suggest at least:

- A cheap and lightly armored falx warrior

- Archers with scythian bows

- Cavalry archers with scythian bows

- Thureophoroi-like javelineer

- Warriors champions with scales armor and a sword

 

https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/wiki/Drapanai_(Dacian_Shock_Infantry)#EB2

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?754138

Edited by Genava55
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See there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_warfare#Infantry_and_Cavalry

Quote

Classical

In the 4th century BC, both infantry and cavalry troops started wearing helmets[27] (some of leather)[28] and some peltasts are seen with greaves.[27]

Principal weapons in the 4th century BC (as well as earlier) were the spear and short knife.[29]

Armor, when it was available (for the nobility), was at first leather or bronze but iron armour started appearing in the 4th century BC.[30]

Thracian cavalry would wear leather armor[10] or no armor and would be armed with javelins,[31] a bow, or a spear.[32] Only royal cavalry would wear armor.[33]Oval shields and peltes (even by heavy cavalry) were later used. Thracian cavalry was numerous.[34] It was also legendary for its combat power so that Philip of Macedon adopted its wedge-shaped formation for the Macedonian cavalry maneuvers.[6]

The helmet type used mostly was the Chalcidian type helmet[35] (over 60 have been found) and, to a much lesser extent, the Corinthian type helmet (one has been found), Phrygian type helmet,[36]Attic type helmet and Scythian type helmet (an open face helmet) with many hybrid types occurring.[27] No Illyrian type helmet has been found in the east Balkans.[35]

Hellenistic

A Thracian footman (3rd century BC - 1st century BC) could wield a knife or sword, Rhomphaia, a helmet, two javelins and a light oval wooden shield (or a heavier iron-rimmed and spined thureos).[37] No Thracian infantry wore greaves until the 4th century BC.[33] Later native and Greek types started being used, the Greek type being rarer.[33] Thracians used mixed Thracian and Greek equipment and armors from different time periods, to the point of wearing armors that ceased to be used elsewhere; this is something they did even in the classic era.[27] Later they adopted Roman armaments.[27]

And about tactics/special wepons:

Quote

Thrace had the potential to muster a huge number of troops[14] though this rarely occurred. By tradition, Thracians honored warriors and, according to Herodotus, despised all other occupations.[14] The Thracians fought as peltasts using javelins and crescent[15] or round wicker shields called peltes. Missile weapons were favored but close combat weaponry was carried by the Thracians as well. These close combat weapons varied from the dreaded rhomphaia[16] to clubs (used to knock the heads off the spears in Xenophon's Anabasis by Thynians), one- and two-sided axes, bows, knives, spears, akinakes and long swords. Thracians shunned armor and greaves and fought as light as possible, favoring mobility above all other traits and had excellent horsemen.[17] The sica was considered their national[18] weapon.[19] The Bithynian Thracians had contributed a number of 6,000 men (60,000 according to Herodotus) in Xerxes I of Persia campaign of 480 BC but in general resisted Persian occupation and turned against Mardonius's army as he retreated.[1] The Triballi frequently used Scythian and Celtic equipment.[20] Thracians[21] decorated their bodies with tattoos like the Illyrians and the Dacians.[22]

And about a dreaded weapon called rhomphaia:

Quote

Used almost exclusively by the Thracians, examples have been found dating from 300-400 BC. As a weapon, the rhomphaia was feared (like the falx) because of the cutting power afforded to it by its design. The falx forced the only documented change in Roman armour brought about by an encounter with a new weapon. After encountering the falx in Dacia, the Romans added extra reinforcing bars to their helmets to protect against the powerful blows of this weapon. According to some researchers, this weapon was developed by the Bessi, that were actively involved in mining and metalworking.[2]

I find it interesting to learn that this weapon even led to a change of Romans' armour. BTW, does 0 A.D. consider maluses and bonuses when specific weapons/armour hit each other? Sorry about my ignorance of this topic. If it does, then maybe Romans on the lowest rank do not yet have the reinforced armour, leading to more damage when hit by the Thracians' rhomphaia? (if this is too complicated, please ignore my idea)

 

While referring only to Wikipedia so far, their webpage might bring more inspiration for the civ of Thracians in 0 A.D. If I find more, I will post it here. Is there anything else that you are interested in, or more details? E.g. what exactly about cavalry?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_warfare

 

The falx, a weapon  with a curved blade that was sharp on the inside edge used by the Thracians and Dacians – and, later, a siege hook used by the Romans, is described there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falx

For more photos, see there: https://stock.adobe.com/de/images/archaeological-finds-ancient-tool-of-the-5th-century-gladiator-weapons-sickle-thracian-and-dacian-falx-siege-hook/231262599

https://www.everypixel.com/image-9211900458387117226

 

The sica was a short sword or large dagger of ancient Thracians, Dacians and Illyrians, used in Ancient Rome too, originating in the Halstatt culture. It was originally depicted as a curved sword (see the Zliten mosaic as well as numerous oil lamps) and many examples have been found in what are today Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania. It is also depicted on Trajan's Column; notably the Dacian king Decebalus is depicted committing suicide with one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sica

 

Uniform of a Thracian - that weblink might contain more stuff for inspiration, though I have no idea how authentic that all is:

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/811773901558874784/

 

A publication titled "THE FORTIFICATIONS OF THE EARLY HELLENISTIC THRACIAN CITY OF SEUTHOPOLIS: BREAKING THE MOLD" (you need to register to download the PDF, but you can read content without registration). There are sketches of a reconstruction of a fortification wall - maybe useful, too.

https://www.academia.edu/424819/THE_FORTIFICATIONS_OF_THE_EARLY_HELLENISTIC_THRACIAN_CITY_OF_SEUTHOPOLIS_BREAKING_THE_MOLD

 

Info about Helis, the capital of the Getae:

https://bnt.bg/news/archaeological-discoveries-about-the-ancient-thracian-city-of-helis-the-capital-of-the-getae-126683news.html

 

The Getae (/ˈt, ˈɡt/ JEE-tee, GHEE-tee) or Gets (/ɛts, ɡɛts/ JETS, GHETS; Ancient Greek: Γέται, singular Γέτης) were several Thracian-related[1] tribes that once inhabited the regions to either side of the Lower Danube, in what is today northern Bulgaria and southern Romania. Both the singular form Get and plural Getae may be derived from a Greek exonym: the area was the hinterland of Greek colonies on the Black Sea coast, bringing the Getae into contact with the ancient Greeks from an early date. Although it is believed that the Getae were related to their westward neighbours, the Dacians, several scholars, especially in the Romanian historiography, posit that the Getae and the Dacians were the same people.

 

Herodot is told to have written (see also there, though restricted access) about the Thracians:

Quote

If they were under one ruler, or united, they would, in my judgement, be invincible and the strongest nation on earth.

 

Edited by Ceres
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Another post before the previous gets too long (source also Wikipedia):

 

Quote

 

Notable people

This is a list of historically important personalities being entirely or partly of Thracian ancestry:

 

We could use (some of) them as leaders or heroes maybe? (Thracians, Dacians)

Edited by Ceres
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And I find this a gem (lots of photos and inspiration - I am so sorry that I lack the skills to create something myself for 0 A.D. from it):

Quote

 

OISYME, A GRECO-THRACIAN COMMUNITY IN NORTHERN GREECE

A thesis submitted to the University of Birmingham for the degree of DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY

Department of Classics, Ancient History and Archaeology  
School of History and Cultures  
College of Arts and Law
University of Birmingham  
May 2016

 

http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/7749/1/Mangum17PhD_size_reduced.pdf

 

More photos of historically accurate (it reads) Thracian and Dacian weapons:

https://fi.pinterest.com/siresasa/ancient-thracian-dacian-weapons-only-historically-/

 

And you will find nice photos with text about Odrysian Cavalry Arms, Equipment, and Tactics there:

https://www.academia.edu/744900/Odrysian_Cavalry_Arms_Equipment_and_Tactics

 

And last but not least, here is some maybe useful info about the Thracian horseman, an abstract figure in Thracian religion as protector of life and health of the people:

https://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/history-and-artifacts/anniversary-events/thracian-cohorts-and-la-in-the-roman-invasion-of-britain.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_horseman

Edited by Ceres
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