Feature: Hero Upgrades

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

That texture on the right is nice!

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 7/12/2020 at 2:57 AM, Carltonus said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone: have you thought of an answer to my previous question? To repeat: if your chosen hero dies, will you have the opportunity to choose another hero from the list, or the only same hero (and sub-heroes) is played for the rest of the game? If no, the discussion regarding Spartan pikemen (and some other hero-required units and upgrades) could continue.

I have now implemented this thanks to @Freagarach @wraitii @Angen and the team.

By training Cleomenes, Perioikoi Hoplites and Spartiate Hoplites are swapped for Perioikoi Phalangites and Reformed Spartiate Phalangites. Also, by training Cleomenes you get access to Stone Walls. Training the Classical heroes keeps the hoplites and doesn't unlock Stone Walls (the option doesn't even show up).

->

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Edited July 23, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Carltonus]

This could be a tall order: choosing Cleomenes III should also replace the mercenary Pelopponesian Hoplite with Thureos Spearman and bring back the Thorakites (from vanilla), probably as surprises--not seen in his card. If the tokens feature allows, all other units may need to be wearing new Hellenistic armor to match with the reforms and times. The Divide et Impera modification for Total War Rome II could be a good inspiration:
https://divideetimperamod.com/sparta/ and http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?745696
The Spartan reformed phalangite may need variants with and without capes, as seen in the latter link. Remind you also the new arrow curtains (shield capes) for the elite Periokoi hoplites.
Edit: Eventually, like the Romans, the Spartans may have to be split into two factions: Greco-Persian and Pelopponesian Wars, and Hellenistic (Reformed), as to reflect the change in gear.

For the Persians, would suggest Artaxerxes III and Darius III; that is, if you don't have others for consideration. For the former, Mithraism affects Citizen and Temple upgrades (and maybe something else); while the latter allows hiring Kardakes mercenaries at the barracks, fixing the historical inconsistency. With the tokens feature, like Chankya, a secondary hero can be chosen. In this case, you could choose one from at least two satraps, dynasts, generals, or others loyal to the Empire. For example, the two Artemisias, one with her bow and the other the Mausoleum.

The Alpha 23 Han Xin comes out with the cavalry completed sound but as a spear infantry, a bug? https://github.com/0ADMods/han_china has Wei Qing as a hero crossbowman.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Carltonus

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Aristides added for Athenians.

What should his bonuses be? 

[Carltonus]

@Nescio could help with the passages from Herodotus, Plato, and Plutarch, if that might help you.

Are you planning to split the Athenian faction into two or three factions (by era) as well?

[Ultimate Aurelian]

16 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Aristides added for Athenians.

What should his bonuses be? 

Some ideas:

Fairness (Aura that boost villagers)

Recalling the exiles (Citizen soldiers train faster)

Maybe a bonus that makes your units immune to bribes (Because he stopped a conspiracy in the army)

Edited August 1, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I have determined that heroes can have:

2 auras or abilities or special stats

• Auras can be ranged/localized or global
• Abilities/special stats can range from greater attack or speed for that hero, to what building they're trained at, to unlocking units or buildings

1 technology

• Each hero will unlock some kind of special technology specific to that hero

1 upgrade

• Example: Horse, Elephant, Berserker mode, heavy armor, something like this. Like "leveling up" your hero. 
• City Phase

Examples:

     

Edited August 2, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

            

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

For some of the navy based heroes, maybe being able to train a flagship specifically for them would be a fun option.

[Phalanx]

4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

            

Wait, does this mean the Seleucids can't build any more CCs without Seleucus?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, Phalanx said:

Wait, does this mean the Seleucids can't build any more CCs without Seleucus?

Correct. They can only build Military Colonies otherwise. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

          

 

I've found that with these hero choices I can somewhat represent the various time periods of these civs. The Spartan hero Cleomenes removes hoplites and replaces them with phalangites, for instance. So, now with the Ptolemies, I've made Ptolemy I make the barracks train Macedonian phalangites, while the other 2 Ptolemaic heroes make the barracks train Egyptian phalangites. 

[Phalanx]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:17 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Here's the current Spartan roster for y'all. Thoughts? 

 

I was wondering if anyone has any ideas to replace them having a "mount." Part of the new hero system is that once City Phase is reached that the heroes are 'Upgradeable' to something even more powerful. 

Does Brasidas' movement buff only apply to him or does it also apply to his formation? I feel like applying to his formation would be good too, considering he'd probably be in a phalanx in combat, so his speed is kind of lost.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, Phalanx said:

Does Brasidas' movement buff only apply to him or does it also apply to his formation? I feel like applying to his formation would be good too, considering he'd probably be in a phalanx in combat, so his speed is kind of lost.

Hmm, maybe. I honestly increased his speed so he can keep up with the Helot skirmisher and slinger.

Here are some other hero cards:

     

[Carltonus]

To be historically fair, the Silver Shield hypaspists upgrade should be exclusive to Alexander (and optionally, whenever a Maurya or some other Hindu faction is in play). The Somatophylakes (royal bodyguards) upgrade should be exclusive to both Philip and Alexander (maybe Demetrius?). These can be some of the hidden upgrades in the faction.

I wholly admit that in Total War: Rome II the separation of perioikoi and Spartan phalangite is most likely not historically accurate, and is exclusive from the game. The Divide et Impera mod kind of fixed that historical error with only one kind of pikemen for the faction: Neohomoioi Phalangitai. Mea culpa. So the hoplites are still mandatory, but their gear should be "updated" to Hellenistic times. If you have any alternatives and/or more additions/revisions to the reformed Spartans, let me know. A separate (sub-)faction would've been better, since at least two more heroes (Agis IV, Nabis, you name them) can be implemented with this.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Honestly, except for the Romans (and Persians of course), I'd rather keep factions as 1 complete faction. With the heroes I am finding a lot of flexibility, thanks to the new ProductionQueue swapping feature recently implemented in the core game, in depicting their lives and times. 

 

I could foresee a Perseus or Philip V hero that swaps out Hypaspists for Royal Peltast phalangites. Ptolemy I Soter swaps the Egyptian phalangite to Macedonian phalangite (already implemented).

 

About Perioikoi phalangites, it's advantageous from a gameplay POV to have some kind of citizen-soldier trained from the Syssition (aka Spartan barracks). And it's a nice 1 to 1 swap to swap Perioikoi hoplites to Perioikoi phalangites. We can rename them to something else of course though (they don't have to be called Perioikoi phalangites).

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Carltonus]

10 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

About Perioikoi phalangites, it's advantageous from a gameplay POV to have some kind of citizen-soldier trained from the Syssition (aka Spartan barracks). And it's a nice 1 to 1 swap to swap Perioikoi hoplites to Perioikoi phalangites. We can rename them to something else of course though (they don't have to be called Perioikoi phalangites).

If not perioikoi (dwellers around), one other option is the symmachoi (allied [Greeks]), which connotes most likely non-Spartans. Probably mercenaries as well.
Since you said "citizen-soldier", the ambiguity between perioikoi and Spartiates begins to appear. Might as well make the phalangites Spartiates, and the champion thorakitai phalangitai (link is for the Antigonid faction).

Other options have to be kept open. Here are all the available hoplites and phalangites for the Spartan faction in the Divide et Impera mod that might help you. At least one non-Skiritai hoplite unit still needs to be intact, or that hoplite/spearman unit can be an symmachoi that replaces the already-existing Pelopponesian Hoplite mercenary. What do you think?

[Phalanx]

4 hours ago, Carltonus said:

Other options have to be kept open. Here are all the available hoplites and phalangites for the Spartan faction in the Divide et Impera mod that might help you. At least one non-Skiritai hoplite unit still needs to be intact, or that hoplite/spearman unit can be an symmachoi that replaces the already-existing Pelopponesian Hoplite mercenary. What do you think?

I know it aint my call, but imho there doesn't need to be another non skiritai hoplite if you pick Agis.  From a gameplay standpoint, (not a historical one) it makes this risk/reward of picking Agis more clear.  If you know you can boom and build more troops than usual, then pick Agis.  If you aren't confident that you'll have the time to build a large force, don't pick Agis.  Including another hoplite makes this less risky, and kinda diminishes the gravity of the gameplay choice.

[Carltonus]

We'll continue the discussion on the Spartan hero(es) and units when @wowgetoffyourcellphone creates a separate Spartans thread. If he doesn't want to split them into two factions (which would've made Pausinias a third/forth for the traditional and Nabis a second/third on the reform), might as well put Nabis as a fifth. Other than that, Agis III only has the 1000 health bonus in vanilla, while Leonidas has an aura bonus for hoplites around him, which of course makes almost little difference which hoplite hero to take. In my opinion, Spartan heroes should all be hoplites or, in the case of Lysander/possible fifth hero, at least a xiphos and aspis. Rome II has the Spartan general unit hoplites.

Checked the GitHub code and found out Hannibal has an upgrade to ride Surus. Why not also give him the option (hidden in the hero card) of riding a horse, since Surus was probably attested only around the Second Punic War (and never heard again after that)? A second choice of speed or power. Good for father-son and brothers-in-law scenarios.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I gave Hannibal the option to ride either his horse or his elephant.

 

Hamilcar Barca:

 

Xanthippus of Sparta:

 

Maharbal

I need some ideas for Maharbal. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Maharbal

I also read all the entries about him on livius.org, but there's not much to go on.

 

Also, 1 more Carthaginian hero is possible. Maybe someone related to the navy.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Also, if anyone has any suggestions for a 4th Ptolemy hero or additional heroes for any civ, let me know!

[wadinfinite]

Amazing! ill let you know. TBH, I've grown fond of these mobile games, I used to play em when I was free, but they've really grown on me. For the past few days I'm playing dragon city mod with unlimited gems and I'm so loving that, not sure if I'd go back to playing Delenda Est again. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by wadinfinite

[Ultimate Aurelian]

15 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Also, if anyone has any suggestions for a 4th Ptolemy hero

Maybe Ptolemy III ''The Benefactor''?

He nearly conquered the Seleucid empire during the Third Syrian War.

He also strengthened his ties with the Egyptian priesthood, and built multiple temples (The Edfu temple started being built during his reign).

Edited August 16, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

51 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Maybe Ptolemy III?

He nearly conquered the Seleucid empire during the Third Syrian War.

He also strengthened his ties with the Egyptian priesthood, and built multiple temples (The Edfu temple started being built during his reign).

I like this. I am also tempted to do things like swap out special buildings per hero too. So, Ptolemy Soter could have the Library, but the others would get the Lighthouse. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

30 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Ptolemy III

After some quick research, Ptolemy III will be the additional Ptol hero. Thanks. 

Any ideas for his look? 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone