Akira Kurosawa Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) Can someone explain me pronounce of: Miletucerdon - Miletu-(ts)-erdon or Miletu-(se)-rdon? Harotz - Haro-t-z or Haro-(ts)? Etxe - Et-(ks)-e or Et-ze? Naukasthanaka - Naukas-(th)-anaka or Naukast-hanaka? Shilabanda - (Sh)-ilabanda or S-h-ilabanda? Xšaçapāvan - (Ks)-(sh)-a-(ts) or (ch)? pavan? Cyfnewidiwr - K-ee-v-ne-oo-ee-d-ee-oo-r? And what about A' B' etc? Is that Alpha, Beta etc? Philippus Beta of Macedon? Edited February 10, 2020 by Zeldt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Good questions! I assume you're asking because you're translating strings on transifex? If you're having trouble with something, it helps if you inform us about file it is, which you can find under Context (yellow) / More Info (cyan) / Occurrences (magenta). For specific names, if you're translating to a language that uses the Latin alphabet, you can usually just click on Copy the source string (green) or press Ctrl+G. If you make a mistake, click on Revert the translation (red). Under Add special character (blue) you can find e.g. the ellipsis (…), itemization bullet (•), en-dash (–), or non-breaking space (NBSP). Alt+Enter will save your changes. If you're translating to a language that uses a different script (e.g. Cyrillic), then you probably want to transcribe the specific names. You can find some information on the relevant wiki page (work in progress). Consistency matters. Are you familiar with IPA? On 10/02/2020 at 3:19 PM, Zeldt said: Miletucerdon - Miletu-(ts)-erdon or Miletu-(se)-rdon? Cyfnewidiwr - K-ee-v-ne-oo-ee-d-ee-oo-r? Expand I don't know how Briton and Gaulish specific names are pronounced. @Genava55? On 10/02/2020 at 3:19 PM, Zeldt said: Harotz - Haro-t-z or Haro-(ts)? Etxe - Et-(ks)-e or Et-ze? Expand Iberians use Basque: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language#Phonology On 10/02/2020 at 3:19 PM, Zeldt said: Naukasthanaka - Naukas-(th)-anaka or Naukast-hanaka? Shilabanda - (Sh)-ilabanda or S-h-ilabanda? Expand Mauryas use Sanskrit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit#Phonology On 10/02/2020 at 3:19 PM, Zeldt said: Xšaçapāvan - (Ks)-(sh)-a-(ts) or (ch)? pavan? Expand Persians use Old Persian. The X was probably pronounced /kʰ/ (as Ancient Greek χ) or /x/ (as Modern Greek χ). The š is indeed /ʃ/ (as in English ship). The ç is uncertain; it may have been a palatal fricative /ç/ (as in German nicht, not German auch, which is velar /x/) or perhaps affricative /t͡ʃ/ (as in English church). The ā is a long a /aː/, which is the same sound as short a /a/, but twice as long. On 10/02/2020 at 3:19 PM, Zeldt said: And what about A' B' etc? Is that Alpha, Beta etc? Philippus Beta of Macedon? Expand Yes and no: the apostrophe (actually a keraia) indicates the Greek letter should not be read as a letter but as a number; B' means 2; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_numerals#Table @Stan` or @feneur, could you split off @Zeldt's question and my answer into a separate translation thread? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feneur Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 5:09 PM, Nescio said: @feneur, could you split off @Zeldt's question and my answer into a separate translation thread? Expand Sure, could you suggest a title for that thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeternaTristitia Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 It's really fascinating to see all these efforts. Thanks for the good work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 5:25 PM, feneur said: Sure, could you suggest a title for that thread? Expand “Translating specific names” or something like that? On 10/02/2020 at 5:25 PM, AeternaTristitia said: It's really fascinating to see all these efforts. Thanks for the good work. Expand Language is fascinating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) On 10/02/2020 at 5:09 PM, Nescio said: I don't know how Briton and Gaulish specific names are pronounced. Expand Gaulish pronunciation is quite a complicated topic because it is hard to know where is the stress. Moreover, I am far from being a linguist. But this can help, the explanations are quite good: In the case of Miletucerdon, one of my personal approximate craft, the stress should be in the -cer- part probably. It should be read MEE-LE-TOO-KER-DON. Edited February 10, 2020 by Genava55 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Quote Cyfnewidiwr Expand This is the word "trader" in Welsh, it comes from cyfnewid, to trade. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cyfnewid C is pronounced like a K. The Y is not on the final syllable so it is pronounced A like in the English "ago". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Oh, thank you! Because I have very different versions in different sources. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 Mankar Cirya - from which language that words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 5:09 PM, Nescio said: ç Expand I found it. Persian ç = ss (Артахшасса) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 Anyway, I must say, that including of "native" names was very bad idea, especially for right transliteration. Now I understand why Age of Empires strongly avoids them in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 11/02/2020 at 2:27 PM, Zeldt said: Mankar Cirya - from which language that words? Expand What is the file name? On 11/02/2020 at 2:45 PM, Zeldt said: I found it. Persian ç = ss (Артахшасса) Expand It's actually a bit more subtle. Though the exact pronunciation is uncertain, it is known that Old Persian ç evolved from Proto-Iranian *θr and eventually became Middle Persian s. It must have been a distinct sound, otherwise the Persians wouldn't have developed separate cuneiform signs for it. Nonetheless, for the purposes of the game, transliterating ç as “сс” /ss/ is fine, provided it's done consistently. On 11/02/2020 at 5:00 PM, Zeldt said: Anyway, I must say, that including of "native" names was very bad idea, especially for right transliteration. Now I understand why Age of Empires strongly avoids them in game. Expand You need people who know what they're doing. It's a lot of extra work for little benefit, so yes, uneconomical, thus understandable why commercial titles typically won't try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion-Tailed Macaque Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) I'm replace Zeldt in translation. On 11/02/2020 at 5:28 PM, Nescio said: What is the file name? Expand simulation/templates/units/noldor_ship_bireme.xml:8 Elfish ship? I need to decide will it be /Mankar Siria/ or /Mankar [Ts]iria/, or /Mankar Kiria/, or /Mankar [Ts]i[r`a]/ etc. Is "Cirya" means syrian or it is own name if it elfish ship? Reveal hidden contents Edited February 13, 2020 by Lion-Tailed Macaque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion-Tailed Macaque Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) On 10/02/2020 at 5:09 PM, Nescio said: Mauryas use Sanskrit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit#Phonology Expand Unfortunately, current "english" names use all kinds of phonemes together without keeping it at one style. Edited February 13, 2020 by Lion-Tailed Macaque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 11/02/2020 at 5:28 PM, Nescio said: You need people who know what they're doing. It's a lot of extra work for little benefit, so yes, uneconomical, thus understandable why commercial titles typically won't try. Expand Moreover, languages are borrowing differently the original names, sometimes adapting the word, sometimes not. Some stay the same like curriculum and curricula. Some stay basically the same like Samurai and Ninja. Although in Japanese they have the same form in plural than in singular, while in Western languages people have the tendency to made up a plural form. Others not, like hoplite (sing.) and hoplites (plu.) in French instead of hoplitēs (sing.) and hoplitai (plu.) in Greek. Or like legionary and legionaries in English, from Latin legionarius and legionarii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 13/02/2020 at 10:20 AM, Lion-Tailed Macaque said: I'm replace Zeldt in translation. simulation/templates/units/noldor_ship_bireme.xml:8 Elfish ship? I need to decide will it be /Mankar Siria/ or /Mankar [Ts]iria/, or /Mankar Kiria/, or /Mankar [Ts]i[r`a]/ etc. Is "Cirya" means syrian or it is own name if it elfish ship? Reveal hidden contents Expand That's an Easter egg. Noldor → J. R. R. Tolkien → Quenya (which I had to look up). As in Classical Latin, c means /k/ in all positions. Mankar Cirya would be pronounced /mankar kirja/. On 13/02/2020 at 10:43 AM, Lion-Tailed Macaque said: Unfortunately, current "english" names use all kinds of phonemes together without keeping it at one style. Expand Yes, unfortunately there are many inconsistencies present in 0 A.D. Ideally all Mauryan specific names would be in the International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST), thus Aśvārahogaṇaḥ, not Aswarahoganah or something else. What is needed is someone with knowledge of Sanskrit to check and correct the current specific names. Elsewhere (generic names etc.) things would be Anglicized; e.g. `maur_hero_ashoka.xml`: <GenericName>Ashoka the Great</GenericName> <SpecificName>Aśoka Devānāmpriya</SpecificName> 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted April 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 On 13/02/2020 at 5:59 PM, Nescio said: What is needed is someone with knowledge of Sanskrit to check and correct the current specific names. Expand Well, I know only chinese-russian language forum but WF text-writters may go to some "esoteric-hinduism" forums and ask their magiphrenic adepts about sanscrit... Induism is not popular at Eastern Europe as in West World, so we have a lack and abandoned hinduism forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted April 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) @Nescio , can you explain me, "Technologies 295 Arrow Shooters" - is that really Arrowslit or it's mean some kind of shooting mechanism in tower? Edited April 21, 2020 by Paruru Slowlegs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 @Nescio On 21/04/2020 at 2:58 PM, Paruru Slowlegs said: @Nescio , can you explain me, "Technologies 295 Arrow Shooters" - is that really Arrowslit or it's mean some kind of shooting mechanism in tower? Expand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 On 21/04/2020 at 2:58 PM, Paruru Slowlegs said: @Nescio , can you explain me, "Technologies 295 Arrow Shooters" - is that really Arrowslit or it's mean some kind of shooting mechanism in tower? Expand You mean https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/technologies/tower_range.json ? I don't know why that name was chosen. The patch that introduced that technology ( https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/15713/ ) doesn't offer any explanation either. I doubt “arrow slits” are meant, though: that would be more appropiate for the “Murder Holes” technology; this technology increases vision and attack range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 On 22/04/2020 at 3:33 PM, Nescio said: You mean https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/technologies/tower_range.json ? I don't know why that name was chosen. The patch that introduced that technology ( https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/15713/ ) doesn't offer any explanation either. I doubt “arrow slits” are meant, though: that would be more appropiate for the “Murder Holes” technology; this technology increases vision and attack range. Expand In Delenda Est, "Loopholes" adds attack range, while "Murder Holes" removes the minimum attack range (same as base game). I think Loopholes sounds better than "Arrow Shooters" which is pretty ambiguous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted April 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) Well, I leave it as "loopholes" sense, because murder holes already taken by other technology, and arrow-throwing "mechanism" still not verified. Reveal hidden contents Edited April 23, 2020 by Paruru Slowlegs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 22/04/2020 at 8:46 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: In Delenda Est, "Loopholes" adds attack range, while "Murder Holes" removes the minimum attack range (same as base game). I think Loopholes sounds better than "Arrow Shooters" which is pretty ambiguous. Expand A “loophole” is an arrow slit in a wall. I don't see why that would increase vision or attack range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted April 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 23/04/2020 at 8:31 AM, Nescio said: A “loophole” is an arrow slit in a wall. I don't see why that would increase vision or attack range. Expand Looks like I should wait for original game text writer, to understand that enigmatic technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 23/04/2020 at 8:31 AM, Nescio said: A “loophole” is an arrow slit in a wall. I don't see why that would increase vision or attack range. Expand I don't think it should change vision at all. And good luck finding a better technology name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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