New Map Giant Europe

[imperium]

 

 

Giant Real Europe.xml Giant Real Europe.pmp

Edited April 22, 2020 by imperium

[coco88]

very nice ! (the Greece seems a bit hazardous)

But since Greece and Italy territories ( Rome would be doomed every game) are very (too much) small on the map . Maybe zoom in until  getting rid of all those unoccupied seas, lands and useless islands ?     

So you would still get the territories (at least most important parts) of  :    Carthage, Iberia, Gauls, Rome, Macedonia and Sparta

Maybe even more space for Iberia and less for Greece so you just keep Macedonia ?

 

Like this, the game and map will be more balanced and  Sardine, Corsica and Sicily   would be real islands for strategic moves (and not only annoying obstacles for boats)  and the Alps would be no more  disproportionately big.

Last thing,  by zooming in, you would have enough space to make the capitals looks like real cities and not a CC with 5-6 houses around.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by coco88

[imperium]

Do you think I should enlarge the Roman and Macedonian territories? Weakening the Greeks?
The Iberians have a lot of potential, so don't enlarge their territory.
As for the islands, I didn't understand if I should join them to dry land or give them to players.
For Gauls and Cartaginians i don't think there are problems. @coco88

Sorry for my bad English.

[badosu]

I think the map looks great as it is, only need to find a way to make italy a little larger and is good to go!

Maybe one possibility is to make a pocket in northern italy, pushing the alps to a semicircle, it would replicate better the actual geography and provide some breathing room for rome. Also, the northern part of rome had many important battles (punic wars, early gauls pushback, barbarian invasions etc) so that would provide some interesting interaction too.

Edited December 20, 2019 by badosu

[imperium]

@badosu I've just change italian peninsula, now is more big.

 

Giant Real Europe.xmlGiant Real Europe.pmp

[coco88]

I'm just saying that your map is too ambitious.   It's a matter of scale .    

  If you don't understand what i wrote in my previous post ;  take the extreme case :   you make a giant map of the whole planet :  You have Canada, Russia , South America .. whole pacific ocean ...     in a result, you have all your civs concentrated in little part of the map and Spain territory  - the size of a CC !  It will be a nice map to see, but a awful map to play !

Your map would be great if you make a giant map with only the territory inside the black circle so you can make it like the Punic Wars campaign (Rome vs Carthage)  or the Macedonian wars (Rome vs Macedonia)    .  At that time, whole Greece was ruled by Macedonia, so you don't need Sparta and Athene on the map.   

I'm not saying the map is bad, i'm saying it will be better to cover less territories.

 

@badosu     no, the solution is not making Italy disproportionally too big ; the problem will remain the same, Rome at P3 will cover the whole Italy with no trees and resources.  The Alps, same problem , a matter of scale, now it's just a nuisance on the map with no strategic use. Same as islands, just a nuisance for boats , matter of scale   impossible to use them as colonies. Look the rivers,  they are flooding France, but yet , still too small for any boat.

 

 

[coco88]

@imperium

take only territories inside black circle so your cities can look like that

 

Malta

Carthagian Palace

little Sicilian coastal city

 

[coworotel]

Hi @imperium, can I include this in the Community Maps mod?

[badosu]

@imperium I tried it, it seems all players are attacked by gaia on start?

- Can't choose civ, start as Carthaginians
- Britons dont have enough space to do farming
- Galli no stone and metal in territory (need to get with barracks or p2)
- Roman situation is bad, against gaia and no territory

With regard to civs, maybe Sciti could be gaia, put Macedon a bit more north and Athens south of where Macedon is. I see some potential in that region, and having ccs nearby is not a problem since historically these civs fought a lot against each other.

I think making Seleucids a player could be good too but would require taking off a civ (maybe Suebi since they are another brit?).

It's unfortunate that we are limited to 8 players, this would be awesome to have all european-north africa-anatolia civs (no space for ptol, pers and maury), Sparta could be put on south of greece but little space.

With regard to territory, if we are looking for a good representation of Europe it does not make sense to talk about balance. North Africa, Celtic and Macedon territory would always be the best spot, but maybe we can make it more manageable.

Remove one of the rivers on north italy to make more breathing room for rome maybe. I am not sure why there's an hellenic CC there (was there an hellenic population in north italy, I think there were some celts there).

So far I really like this map, specially the little touches (I like the north atlantic fishing and wrecks), great job!

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by badosu

[coco88]

told ya..  lack of space makes this map unplayable for Rome (even more with Gaia tribes)   Seems people are a bit slow to understand...  or do they even read ?

 

in my own opinion, would be better to make giant maps to recreate historical wars and create large cities . 

 

Carthage vs Rome   +  gauls, ibers , mace  and  nubians (kushites would be ok) as possible allies/ mercenaries .   So centre the map around Carthage - Rome midway.  

Make map of inside the circle, it will be terrific

Now , you can

• make capitals big enough (no more a cc with 5 houses around)
• mountains like Pyrenees and Alps are big enough on the map so can be used for skirmishing  and strategic use
• rivers are large enough to fight with boats
• islands are big enough to worth an invasion or an hold
• Rome and Carthage are distant enough to make the game other than spamming/ flooding the sea with empty boats

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by coco88

[badosu]

1 hour ago, coco88 said:

told ya..  lack of space makes this map unplayable for Rome (even more with Gaia tribes)   Seems people are a bit slow to understand...  or do they even read ?

Why so rude? I commented before on Rome lack of space. That's not the point.

I am giving my feedback based on @imperium original idea, of course Carthage vs Rome would be a more playable situation... or Mace, Sele, Greece... or Iberia Brit Gauls... or Ptols Pers Greece... etc

If @imperium decides to restrict the territory I think we can get more playable maps indeed, if he does that I'll give feedback on that, if he does not I'll give feedback what he does instead.

Edited December 27, 2019 by badosu

[coco88]

 Because i think it's not helping Imperium to advice him to make some minor correction while the problem is a scope problem. It has to be redo

  Just look at Rome, even if he makes Italy disproportionately  monstrous 2 times thicker it will remain a doomed position to start with (unland 2-3 rams while ships are genociding legions  on the beach and bye bye Rome) . Also, it doesn't make sense to put on a tiny Greece : Mace, Sparta and Athene .  The thing is that when Rome was VS Carthage in that time, Macedonia ruled the whole Greece.

The map is too ambitious , it covers too much territory. Nobody will play it and Imperium will be sad. Just look at how people just stick to mainland when they play multiplayer, they need space to manoeuvre army, hero dance and slinger spamming.  So a map with narrow spaces like that will never be played.

[Loki1950]

Those giant maps are just not possible with this game engine.

Enjoy the Choice  

[badosu]

After all that's been said, it is still playable, but with an anachronistic setting. With available civs: Celts, Ibers, Athens/Sparta, Macedon, Carriage, Kush and Sales.

 

Of these, the ones that fought each other afaik are Hellenic and Seles.

[coco88]

actually , Mace dominated Athene and Sparta and when Alexander died, it was split into many : Ptol and Seleucides are the 2 most famous and they fought each other while Rome was on the rise.

 

 

This map is interesting . It shows the mediterranean powers before the second Punic wars (Carthage vs Rome).  

Carthage + Iberian ally    VS   Rome

Gauls and Numidians (Kushites are ok) acting like a barrier

And all those Greeks split in many, but the classical Greeks were eager to ask Rome to help them to get ride of the macedonians Greeks (Antigonids at that time)  .  At that time Seleucids and Ptolemies were too busy fighting each other to mind Rome and Carthage business.  Philip V of Macedonia made an alliance with Carthage and it lead to the first Macedonian war

 

 

 

The Second Punic War (Spring 218 to 201 BC),^[3][4][5] also referred to as The Hannibalic War and by the Romans the War Against Hannibal, was the second of three Punic Wars between Ancient Carthage and the Roman Republic, with the participation of Greek polities and Numidian and Iberian forces on both sides. It was one of the deadliest human conflicts of ancient times. Fought across the entire Western Mediterranean region for 17 years and regarded by ancient historians as the greatest war in history, it was waged with unparalleled resources, skill, and hatred.^[6]:21.1 It saw hundreds of thousands killed, some of the most lethal battles in military history, the destruction of cities, and massacres and enslavements of civilian populations and prisoners of war by both sides.

 

Summary of the conquest of Greece by Rome after the Punic wars

Edited December 28, 2019 by coco88

[badosu]

5 hours ago, coco88 said:

actually , Mace dominated Athene and Sparta and when Alexander died, it was split into many : Ptol and Seleucides are the 2 most famous and they fought each other while Rome was on the rise.

 

8 hours ago, badosu said:

Of these, the ones that fought each other afaik are Hellenic and Seles.

Maybe I could have framed it better, by Hellenic I meant Antigonids (as Macedon), Macedon, Sparta/Athens fighting each other or in rebellion against Macedon.

Rome is the civilization that ties it all together, so it's absence would be a bit weird.

Ptolemies wouldn't be available as the map does not extend to the Nile Delta or Levant.

Edited December 28, 2019 by badosu

[imperium]

@coco88 @badosu

- To realize your idea would be to totally create another map, maybe in the future I will, but it takes time especially if you want to make them big.

- I tried to make the italian peninsula bigger to make Rome easier, which in my opinion isn't so unmanageable, as far as the CC in the north was concerned, I wanted to represent the war against the Etruscans.

- The positions of the players isn't random, the players are in precise point to balance the map, so if I would put all the players in west, the map would be empty to the east, and the player closer to empty would conquer half map.

- I could remove the Piave.

- The Britons at the beginning they can't build a field but any civ have bush-food and the Britons have lot of fish.

- Roman situation at the beginning it's bad, but if you can defeat the gaia and prepares 50 men, you can occupe the nord peninsula and you can to thrive, exactly like the Britons you have fish.

This territory was under water.

Gauls are near to metal and stone.

Edited December 28, 2019 by imperium

[coco88]

@imperium    i really like your work . But Rome has no vital space at all and is too exposed to  any attack coming from the 2 sides of the sea  (quinquireme with catapults = gg for Rome)

your map covers too much territory even with giant size.    Your Italy's width is only 2 CC,  Rome will have to use all the wood of Italy to spam boats in order to avoid losing control of the sea

 

Below, (yes, looks horrible)  this is just to show you that reducing the cover of your map, 

• Rome can now fit like  5 - 6 CC  across Italy's width
• Now, players can colonize Sardinia and Corsica and get wood on spanish islands
• The sea is big enough to make naval manoeuvres
• Now, Alps and Pyrenees are large enough to conquer for strategic use

I suggest to put on the map 4 civs only  : Mace , Rome, Carthage, Iberia     and  Gaia  : Gauls north,  Kushites south

 

(maybe make map even a bit more zooming on Italy)

 

[kangz]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:21 AM, imperium said:

Giant Real Europe.pmp 2.5 MB · 1 download Giant Real Europe.xml 1.55 MB · 1 download

this proofs that the earth is flat.

[coco88]

 

 

[Stockfish]

how can i play it? =D

[imperium]

@Stoccafisso

download the files and move it in : PC - Documents - My Games - 0ad - mods - user - maps - scenarios.

So open 0AD and in your scenario's maps there will be the map " Mappa Europe IV sec. a.C."

[Stockfish]

thank youuu =D

[imperium]

i have did a new small updating.