Heroes mixing

[abc1]

When u and ur allie combine their heros in battle are the effects added?

Like my hero gives +20% attack and my allies hero gives +15% attack. Would that then make +35% attack for all units?

Edited August 16, 2019 by abc1

[sphyrth]

This is another interesting question. Alright, devs, which is it:

A. +35%
B. +20% and then +15%
C. +15% and then +20%

[abc1]

ur A B C is all the same

[Feldfeld]

ABC is not the same and answer is 20% and that's all.

[abc1]

what does it mean then?> @Feldfeld

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by abc1

[Feldfeld]

By 20% and then 15% he meant that the 15% is applied after the first 20% bonus is, so on an attack value that is higher than the base one, making it give a bigger bonus

and what it means that ally aura don't affect you (afaik)

EDIT: in other words, the answer is no to the very first question of the thread

[abc1]

I dont even understand ur sentence. Someone translates this into logic?

[Feldfeld]

Imagine you have a base stat of 100. You apply a bonus of 20% and then a bonus of 15%. After the 20% bonus, your stat is 120 and you apply the 15% bonus on that number making it 138. This is higher than a 20 + 15 = 35% bonus which results in 135.

[s0600204]

@abc1: If both auras affect whatever units you're controlling, then yes the effects will combine.

@sphyrth: you're asking if 0AD is doing:

    [base attack] +20% +15% (equivalent to: [base attack] * 1.2 * 1.15)

or

    [base attack] +(20 + 15)% (equivalent to: [base attack] * 1.35)

I believe it's the former, which in this theoretical scenario where both auras are in effect, amounts to +38% to unit attack.

@Feldfeld: Whether or not an Ally's aura affects you depends on how the aura in question has been defined. It is also possible for an Enemy's aura to affect you if defined to do so.

As an example: the Ptolemaic hero Cleopatra has an aura that increases the heath of allied Heroes, and a second aura that lowers the health of enemy Heroes.

[abc1]

The  things mentioned by these two clowns are nonesense.

My initial idea was either it stays at the highest which is 20% or combines to 35%. There is only these two options.

And I didnt open this thread for poeple to comment on it who dont know it for sure. I wanted know it from developers or people who looked into the codes.

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by abc1

[Feldfeld]

  On 16/08/2019 at 11:48 PM, s0600204 said:

@Feldfeld: Whether or not an Ally's aura affects you depends on how the aura in question has been defined. It is also possible for an Enemy's aura to affect you if defined to do so.

As an example: the Ptolemaic hero Cleopatra has an aura that increases the heath of allied Heroes, and a second aura that lowers the health of enemy Heroes.

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Yeah, true, although for those cases it's specified in the tooltips. I got focused on the attack bonuses which i remembered didn't stack with others (after veerifying, some do, other not). In the end, even the cleopatra bonus can only stack with itself, right ?

  On 16/08/2019 at 11:55 PM, abc1 said:

The  things mentioned by these two clowns is nonesense.

My initial idea was either it stays at the highest which is 20% or combines to 35%. 

And I didnt open this thread for poeple to comment on it who doesnt know it for sure. I wanted the 100% truth from developers or people who looked into the codes.

 

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Worry not, i looked into the codes. I found a very ambiguous case. And still, it doesn't necessarily stay at the highest, it would only stay to the bonus that affects you, and if it combines, it doesn't necessarily combine to 35%.

[abc1]

sry but I will read urs no more  @Feldfeld

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 17/08/2019 at 12:07 AM, Feldfeld said:

Yeah, true, although for those cases it's specified in the tooltips. I got focused on the attack bonuses which i remembered didn't stack with others (after veerifying, some do, other not). In the end, even the cleopatra bonus can only stack with itself, right ?

Worry not, i looked into the codes. I found a very ambiguous case. And still, it doesn't necessarily stay at the highest, it would only stay to the bonus that affects you, and if it combines, it doesn't necessarily combine to 35%.

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Very useful information.

[Feldfeld]

As for the ambiguous cases, we can first compare Vercingetorix and Hannibal auras, respectively :
-+20% attack and +1 capture for soldiers and siege engines.
-+20% attack and +1 capture for nearby allied soldiers and siege engines.
When we see them together we can obviously tell the difference, but for 0AD players that see them at different time, they could assume it do be the same, it would also make sense in term of balance. But indeed we have : "affectedPlayers": ["Ally"], in the code for Hannibal and not for Vercingetorix. But that's not all,
Cleopatra's tooltip has : "+10% health for allied heroes." which is written the same way as Hannibal's but in the code it has : "affectedPlayers": ["ExclusiveMutualAlly"], which kind of hints to a difference we don't really know of. And on top of that it's unclear if in the bonuses to allies also affect you, which is not the case for teambonuses.

  On 17/08/2019 at 12:09 AM, abc1 said:

sry but I will read urs no more  @Feldfeld

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I don't mind, but i'm almost sure you still don't know the answer.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Feldfeld

[abc1]

another question would be if all heroes affect allies 

[abc1]

ok I Just found out it indeed needs to say in the description bonus for allies, only certain heros have that attribute

Edited August 17, 2019 by abc1

[Feldfeld]

  On 17/08/2019 at 12:15 AM, Feldfeld said:

As for the ambiguous cases, we can first compare Vercingetorix and Hannibal auras, respectively :
-+20% attack and +1 capture for soldiers and siege engines.
-+20% attack and +1 capture for nearby allied soldiers and siege engines.
When we see them together we can obviously tell the difference, but for 0AD players that see them at different time, they could assume it do be the same, it would also make sense in term of balance. But indeed we have : "affectedPlayers": ["Ally"], in the code for Hannibal and not for Vercingetorix. But that's not all,
Cleopatra's tooltip has : "+10% health for allied heroes." which is written the same way as Hannibal's but in the code it has : "affectedPlayers": ["ExclusiveMutualAlly"], which kind of hints to a difference we don't really know of. And on top of that it's unclear if in the bonuses to allies also affect you, which is not the case for teambonuses.

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Result : Vercingetorix only affects the player's own troops as expected, Hannibal affects the player + his allies, Cleopatra health bonuses affects the allies but not the player (actually logical)

  On 17/08/2019 at 12:33 AM, abc1 said:

ok I Just found out it indeed needs to say in the description bonus for allies, only certain heros have that attribute

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Yes

[abc1]

allied soldiers includes everyone, I had that conversation in another thread already, where someone claimed that it affects only others/.  So of course alllie dnearby soldiers means ur own too. For Cleopatra they said Exclusive..ALly" they wanna say NOT her.

Now about team bonus. In team bonus u say allies is meant as "others". I wasnt always sure about that, but could be, and maybe not always. It depends all on how sloppy the devs were with their descriptions, they are all somewhat unclear. Just like spyrth was when he said 20 then 15, I had no idea what he meant Could mean anything.

Edited August 17, 2019 by abc1

[Feldfeld]

  On 17/08/2019 at 12:36 AM, Feldfeld said:

Hannibal affects the player + his allies,

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That said, Hannibal's bonus to allies don't stack with other possible hannibals :

[abc1]

  On 17/08/2019 at 12:47 AM, Feldfeld said:

Hannibal affects the player + his allies,

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thats not an explanation for the effect not taking place twice...

I dont see ur logic. THis doesnt exclude the idea both could have effect.

Edited August 17, 2019 by abc1

[sphyrth]

@abc1
Please don't call us clowns because your question was addressed by a Programmer through me. He believes that your example added to about 38% and not 35%.

[Feldfeld]

  On 17/08/2019 at 1:47 AM, abc1 said:

thats not an explanation for the effect not taking place twice...

I dont see ur logic. THis doesnt exclude the idea both could have effect.

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Where did i say that ? I just made an observation.

[Nescio]

  On 16/08/2019 at 10:11 PM, abc1 said:

When u and ur allie combine their heros in battle are the effects added?

Like my hero gives +20% attack and my allies hero gives +15% attack. Would that then make +35% attack for all units?

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It depends on the aura. By default they affect only their own, but there are several exceptions which affect allies or enemies instead. You can do a `grep -ir affectedplayers` inside simulation/data/auras/ to find those files.

And modification do stack. +20% and +15% is 1.2×1.15=1.38, i.e. +38%, not +35%. It's called multiplication (like compound interest).

[abc1]

what a bunch of nonesense. 

I dont wanna hear any more speculations or unproved statements.

Which dev can I call to answer this question?

[Stan`]

@s0600204 gave you a correct answer and he is a dev as you can see by the little badge. Nescio's answer is also correct. So I don't know what answer you expect but I don't think we can do much better than that unfortunately.