Civ: Germans (Cimbri, Suebians, Goths)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think we have our 4 heroes.

[Genava55]

On 25/08/2019 at 9:49 AM, Genava55 said:

Arminius (*Herminaz?) could have Roman equipment from his past (Arminius is actually Cherusci but I think everybody wants him to be a playable hero, the other possibility is Maroboduus which is more accurate and more interesting). Ariovistus (*Harjafristaz? or a Celtic, Ariouistos?) could have Gallic equipment. Ballomar could wear a 100% Germanic outfit and carrying only Germanic weapons.

Edit: Maroboduus could increase the experience gained by his troops as a reflection of the regular training he ordered. Ariovistus could give a territory extension bonus or a capture bonus as a reflection of his conquest in Gaul and his skills in politics. Ballomar could give a bonus in looting.

As a complementary info, we reached the same conclusion I think

[Ultimate Aurelian]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

As a complementary info, we reached the same conclusion I think

I used your comment as a guideline when i researched their equipment.

I actually quoted it in the original thread.

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/27934-art-references-suebian-german-units-shields-weapons-clothing/?do=findComment&comment=395400

And indeed i think using looted/traded equipment is the best way to have variety between heroes (since early Germanics rarely used armor, and the few finds are mostly from Roman or Celtic source).

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Ultimate Aurelian

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Now, I guess the question is if I want to take the time and make all these hero actors or not for the DE A24 release. It's already quite late, and no one's really assisting me on making props (helmets, shields) and such. lol

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Arminius actor draft. I'll need to use existing assets for these guys for now.

 

[Stan`]

Still a nice patchwork

[Genava55]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Arminius actor draft. I'll need to use existing assets for these guys for now.

Isn't Arminius a cavarly commander and a Roman eques?

[Ultimate Aurelian]

Gameplay wise i think most heroes on DE start on foot and then upgrade to be mounted (unlike normal 0 A.D thing of some heroes being on foot and others mounted).

But if there is a vanilla version of the faction then he should be a cavalry hero indeed.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Ultimate Aurelian

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

Isn't Arminius a cavarly commander and a Roman eques?

 

16 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Gameplay wise i think most heroes on DE start on foot and then upgrade to be mounted (unlike normal 0 A.D thing of some heroes being on foot and others mounted).

But if there is a vanilla version of the faction then he should be a cavalry hero indeed.

Indeed, you upgrade your hero to a mount in City Phase.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, Stan` said:

Still a nice patchwork

Kitbashing

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Updated 1st post with hero information. Need info for the Gothic heroes, but those won't come until A25 or A26.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 08/04/2021 at 3:48 PM, Genava55 said:

Isn't Arminius a cavarly commander and a Roman eques?

He'll definitely get a cavalry bonus or aura. Also, some kind of "alliance building" aura. He needs a technology too. 

 

Any ideas for these, guys? 

[Ultimate Aurelian]

23 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

He'll definitely get a cavalry bonus or aura. Also, some kind of "alliance building" aura. He needs a technology too. 

 

Any ideas for these, guys? 

One the posts above has some ideas

Quote

Edit: Maroboduus could increase the experience gained by his troops as a reflection of the regular training he ordered. Ariovistus could give a territory extension bonus or a capture bonus as a reflection of his conquest in Gaul and his skills in politics. Ballomar could give a bonus in looting.

Not sure how to portray it gameplay wise; but Arminius could have a tech relating to how he ambushed the Romans.

Ariovistus could have something related to cavalry; due to the skilled Belgae and Germanic horsemen he employed.

Maroboduus led his people to Bohemia and estabilished a kingdom there; so maybe he gets a bonus/tech about it (Something like faster building or cheaper CC?)

Since heroes in others factions sometimes affect the roster; maybe heroes could unlock some of the mercenary units from UB to be trained as normal units in fortress.

IE: Arminius unlocks Chatti Veterans and Cheruscian pikemen; Ariovistus unlocks Gallic allied warriors and Rhine cavalry (special horse-stabber unit? or celtified cavalry with mail armor).

[Genava55]

https://www.academia.edu/3990448/Römische_Helme_aus_dem_Thorsberger_Moor

https://www.academia.edu/3990440/Der_germanische_Helm_aus_dem_Thorsberger_Moor

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270900114_Neue_Forschungen_in_Thorsberg_und_Nydam

[nifa]

those buildings look really nice!

germanic longhouses had the entrance on the side and were split into two halfes with people living on the one side and animals on the other. They were long and big in size and with the roof nearly until the ground.

I think this could be a nice special building (like the appartment buildings of the romans or carthagians), with a bigger population bonus and animal corral combined.

Also I noticed the chicken coop/ henhouse on stilts (like in the background on those pictures). Would be a nice addition too.

It would give individuality to the germanics but I understand if it breaks the balance/ scale..

Edited May 6, 2021 by nifa

[nifa]

On 29/04/2020 at 1:59 AM, Genava55 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opfermoor_Vogtei

https://www.weltbild.de/artikel/kalender/opfermoor-vogtei-am-mittelpunkt-deutschlands-wandkalender_24502306-1

https://www.biologie-seite.de/Biologie/Anthropomorphe_Pfahlgötter

There is also a chicken coop in Opfermoor Vogtei, on stilts and with wicker instead of a wall

[nifa]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Arch%C3%A4ologisches_Freilichtmuseum_Funkenburg?uselang=de

some pictures from an open air museum

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

(seems more like a storage than a coop)

Edited May 8, 2021 by nifa

[Genava55]

Yeah this is generally a storage, it's elevated to protect it from ground moisture and rats. The Celts did the same.

[Stan`]

What would be the advantage of a coop vs a corral ?

[nifa]

5 hours ago, Stan` said:

What would be the advantage of a coop vs a corral ?

The Longhouse/byre-dwelling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byre-dwelling) is something unique to the germanic tribes. Other cultures didn't have animals and people literally under one roof. Maybe it could be available in the city phase. And for the village phase there could be the chicken coop.

So you would start with the coop and chickens in village phase, and then build the longhouse in city phase (or town phase) to produce cows, pigs etc and get an extra population bonus.

btw. what's the "great hall" building above? I don't get it

5 hours ago, m7600 said:

For the game, maybe get a trickle of food over time.

Also a nice idea!

the coop could also be a feature in the farm building, only visual

 

[nifa]

The farm houses in lower saxony are still very similar until today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German_house

17 hours ago, Stan` said:

What would be the advantage of a coop vs a corral ?

Long story short, historically corrals didn't exist, they lived together with their animals.

I didn't find this kind of living in any other culture, except maybe the vikings (who are also considered to be germans in the broadly sense). I think the Gauls didn't have these? Maybe someone has a better insight in other cultures? It could somehow distinguish the gauls from the germanic tribes, otherwise they'd be too similar

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

[MrLux]

Hey folks, so I was a bit erratic in my presence here because I'm juggling jobs and gigs. For the time being I'm not able to continue the suebians building set. However I hope that the blend file was clear enough for anyone to pick it up. If you have question, I can always answer.

I doubt that it's the first time that something like that happens, but hope to be able to come back.

[Lopess]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:11 AM, MrLux said:

Hey folks, so I was a bit erratic in my presence here because I'm juggling jobs and gigs. For the time being I'm not able to continue the suebians building set. However I hope that the blend file was clear enough for anyone to pick it up. If you have question, I can always answer.

I doubt that it's the first time that something like that happens, but hope to be able to come back.

Its structures are well developed and designed, I'm tempted to try to see them on 0ad, the cool thing about making the files available and that we can always count on the help of someone in the community.

[Dasaavawar]

1. Comments on the actual models:

They look mostly great, congratulations to the artists (@Obskiuras and @MrLux). I would only like to say that the stone circle from the temple is using too much ground space (maybe it would be better to decorate it with those religious totems).  As for the civic center, I think it still looks small (specially when compared with the barracks). The entrance corridor also looks very long, almost like in the first model of the temple, maybe increasing the useful space of the CC might it make look slightly shorter). The covered entrance from the first model of the CC was nice too.

2. References for textures and (possible) wonder:

Here I share the references that I found.

'Alamannen museum' (museum of the 'Alamanni'; from a quick look on wikipedia, they also were included in the Suebian peoples, tho, it would be interesting if Merovingians are also going to be included in the Carolingians (or more like the Frankish Empire) as for recreating the iconic battle of Tolbiac).

I think this can be useful at least for developing realistic textures (and differentiating their architecture from the Gaulish one):

http://www.alamannen-museum.de/das-freigelaende.html

Particularly, if this could be possibly used as for the coloration / textures:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Panorama-Wohnstallhaus.jpg

more references on the 'Langhaus' (Long house(s)) and others related with the 'Steinzeit'  (Stone time (age)):

https://www.museum-quintana.de/content/?attachment_id=284

http://www.archaeopro.de/archaeopro/Strukturen/Langhaus1/Langhaus1-Rek.htm

https://www.ndr.de/ratgeber/reise/binnenland_elbe/Willkommen-in-der-Steinzeit,steinzeitpark125.html

https://www.steinzeitdorf-randau.de/

I was also thinking of using one of those Long houses from the artistic depictions shared by @nifa as their wonder, along with giving them those small storehouses (with a number limit and only after having built a big storehouse, I had this same idea for other 'barbarian' factions too; Iberians, Gauls, Britons and Lusitanians). And introducing another special building for the Suebians (I'm going to share information about it later).

3. General comments:

It also makes me wonder up to which point it is viable to include some factions for which it's almost impossible to even find reliable and detailed information about their leaders (like Batavians and Galatians). That not even considering having to differentiate each of them and providing them with different buildings / technologies / boats / wonders. Or if it's more realistic for their units and even some of their (few) leaders to be trained both in the Suebian and Gaulish fortresses (or special barracks), respectively.

On the other hand, Visigoths and Ostrogoths could be more easily splitted into two different factions (it's much easier to find more information about them, along with their architecture and unique characteristics). This also should be encouraged considering the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains, probably one of the most important battles in European history.

The other day and on another post I remember having read a comment about how the game 'already has 5 Athenian factions'. I think at least each of these 'Athenians' had much more cultural relevance, they left some relevant buildings behind (whose remains can still be found today) and they became famous because of something else that just one single battle that was noted by one historian.

It really makes me think which of those possible factions are really worth of the title 'Empire'. As in 'Empires Ascendant' .

Edited August 14, 2021 by Dasaavawar