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Macedonian wonder


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Here's a version with some exterior plants and a checkered floor pattern. @Carltonus and @Nescio, I know that you guys said that you didn't want plants on the exterior. But the civic center and the library have some (the CC in the front corners, the library on the sides). So I figured that it could work for the wonder. Also, the CC has a checkered floor pattern, so I incorporated that to the wonder as well. These are just some rough ideas though, nothing is final.
I think that the model could use some steps as well, since most of the Macedonian buildings have them.

561878344_Screenshotfrom2021-03-1316-17-06.png

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Note to self: Next time, check history before modelling a building. Also RTFM.   mausoleum.zip

Small update. Under construction. Working on the front side, based on your suggestions and information.  

Quick update. It's still a work in progress. I don't have a lot free time lately, so the little that I have I've been spending it on the Macedonian Wonder.

Posted Images

The checkered tiles can be removed since they will float if not on a flat surface. It actually needs a platform under the ground level to deal with slopes. I like the courtyard and corner trees. The corner trees are a motif, as you've noted, that helps weld the structure set together.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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Actually, those "tiles" won't float because they're not really tiles, they're columns. I copied them from the Macedonian Civic Center. The reason you're not seeing them in the previous post is because I hid them under a green plane. If I remove it, you can see the columns. I haven't updated the in-game model yet, so here's some screenshots from Blender. Try placing the Mace CC on uneven terrain in the Atlas Editor, it will be the same effect for the Wonder.
However, if they look bad, I can replace them with something else.

 

Screenshot from 2021-03-13 20-28-40.png

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1 minute ago, m7600 said:

Actually, those "tiles" won't float because they're not really tiles, they're columns. I copied them from the Macedonian Civic Center.

Trust me, we've wanted to remove them from the CC for years now. The "column" effect is definitely visible in-game and not desirable. :) Better to future-proof your hard work and just add a nice block foundation now. 

ugly01.jpg

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If you want to keep checkered tiles maybe use block foundation with two different colors (makes more sense than alternating between tiles and dirt).

Although i am not sure how accurate checkering is.

http://pella.virtualreality.gr/en.html

From aerial view of ruins it seems there was only checkering inside one of the rooms.

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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On 13/03/2021 at 10:14 AM, maroder said:

From my limited understanding it is better to have one big texture file, because in some cases (based on the render implementation) it decreases the performance if you draw a texture from one file and then switch to another. But maybe @vladislavbelovknows more about that?

It depends on how it's going to be used. How many different meshes are going to use these textures. Will be these meshes always rendered together or they're unrelated.

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57 minutes ago, vladislavbelov said:

It depends on how it's going to be used. How many different meshes are going to use these textures. Will be these meshes always rendered together or they're unrelated.

Do you mean how many meshes for this Wonder, or how many meshes for the total number of buildings in the Macedonian civ? This wonder uses 9 different meshes, each of them uses its own texture file.

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I'm about to finish this. It's in the last stages. The general idea is complete, now I have to fix some details, connect a few things, and optimize the mesh. I removed the checkered floor and gave it a block foundation.

Screenshot from 2021-03-14 10-49-50.png

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Thank you for sharing those screenshots, you made some great progress! The size is great, it's clearly wonder-like :). Some more things, though:

  • The columns in your courtyard look Corinthian; they ought to be Doric.
  • Could you add the veranda on the north (i.e. right) side?
Spoiler

aigai.png.2990f39e6c9c5bd25e336cb909bcd537.png

  • There is a problem with a wall:
Spoiler

wall.png.6cc359bb24647eaa7fc7b44f546530ed.png

I also stumbled upon an earlier post written by @Sundiata two years ago: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/25207-hellenistic-royal-courts-valuable/?tab=comments#comment-366920

19 hours ago, m7600 said:

Here's a version with some exterior plants and a checkered floor pattern. @Carltonus and @Nescio, I know that you guys said that you didn't want plants on the exterior. But the civic center and the library have some (the CC in the front corners, the library on the sides). So I figured that it could work for the wonder. Also, the CC has a checkered floor pattern, so I incorporated that to the wonder as well. These are just some rough ideas though, nothing is final.
I think that the model could use some steps as well, since most of the Macedonian buildings have them.

Most structures in game are essentially fantasy designs and that's perfectly fine; artistic licence etc. However, if and when something is based on a specific building and it is roughly known how it looked like in the past, then it should reflect that closely in 0 A.D. People care about historical accuracy and wonders should showcase the best. Hence why I'm more critical than towards other structures. One doesn't embellish the Eiffel Tower with cherry trees just because it has a boring colour.

Those marble flower beds with tiny trees on the outside corners are a bit nonsense, as are the large marble pedestals in the courtyard. If you want some green, why not put some ivy on the south (i.e. left) wall? As for other decorations, how about some baskets, pottery, and perhaps weapons in the porticoes of the front and the courtyard?

15 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Trust me, we've wanted to remove them from the CC for years now. The "column" effect is definitely visible in-game and not desirable. :) Better to future-proof your hard work and just add a nice block foundation now.

Yes, I fully agree! Use a solid block as a platform to erect the building upon. That also applies to other structures.

5 minutes ago, m7600 said:

So, how should I commit this after I finish it? Should I just fork the 0 AD github repo and make a pull request?

Bundle your work in a mod so people can try it out in game and wait for @LordGood or @Stan` to review it; once they're satisfied they'll commit it.

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27 minutes ago, Nescio said:

One doesn't embellish the Eiffel Tower with cherry trees just because it has a boring colour.

That's actually a really good point. Not that your other point's aren't good, but this one really stood out, because I think it synthesizes the tension between historical accuracy and artistic license, and I think that this goes beyond the case of Macedonian wonder.
 

27 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Could you add the veranda on the north (i.e. right) side?

It's going to destroy the building's symmetry... but this is another example of the same point as before. I'd like the building to be symmetrical, but I realize that I can't really make that call, since the historical building did have a veranda, as you pointed out.
 

27 minutes ago, Nescio said:

If you want some green, why not put some ivy on the south (i.e. left) wall? As for other decorations, how about some baskets, pottery, and perhaps weapons in the porticoes of the front and the courtyard?

That can be done.
 

27 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Bundle your work in a mod so people can try it out in game and wait for @LordGood or @Stan` to review it; once they're satisfied they'll commit it.

Ok, will do.

Thanks again Nescio, very valuable feedback, as always! : )

Edited by m7600
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So, this is what it currently looks like in the Atlas Editor, on even and uneven terrain. It doesn't have ambient occlusion yet. As per @Nescio's suggestions:

- The exterior plants have been removed.
- The four statues in the central courtyard have been removed.

Still to do:
- Replace the Corinthian columns with Doric ones.
- Add a veranda on the north ("right") side.
- Add ivy on the south ("left) side.
- Add baskets, pottery, and weapons in the porticoes of the front and the courtyard.

Anything else?

Screenshot from 2021-03-14 14-25-37.png

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Incidentally, I'm looking at the columns of the Greek civs, none of them seem to be Doric. The Macedonian buildings use Corinthian columns, the Athenians use Ionic columns, Spartans seem to use something similar to Doric but they have a square on top, Seleucids use Corinthian. The Athenian wonder looks somewhat Doric, but it also has a square on top of the column.

Well, I'll just have to modify one of those then, to get a more Doric design.

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12 minutes ago, LordGood said:

gotta rebake those AO maps!

Yeah, that's the worst part, lol. If only there was a Python script for that. I'm sure there's gotta be something like that somewhere.

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8 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Incidentally, I'm looking at the columns of the Greek civs, none of them seem to be Doric. The Macedonian buildings use Corinthian columns, the Athenians use Ionic columns, Spartans seem to use something similar to Doric but they have a square on top, Seleucids use Corinthian. The Athenian wonder looks somewhat Doric, but it also has a square on top of the column.

Yes, that's correct:

Spoiler

DoricParthenon.jpg

 

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47 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Add baskets, pottery, and weapons in the porticoes of the front and the courtyard

I always find those randomly placed props rather odd. A basket in front of a regular house is still ok, but shields and weapons everywhere certainly not. Either you had them close by or they were stored more or less securely.

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4 minutes ago, m7600 said:

@Nescio does this column look Doric to you? I modified the top of one of the game's columns.

No: Ionic etc. have a foot, Doric columns don't. There are also differences in the shape of the shaft and the ridges, but those things are probably too small for use in game.

If you're making a new column specifically for this wonder, then make them smaller (more slender) than the ones used in the temple and current wonder and use more of them in the porticoes. For comparison, the barracks is a much smaller structure but has quite a few (Corinthian) columns. And bonus points if you have three sizes, for the ground level of the frontal portico, for the storey above, and for the central courtyard :).

7 minutes ago, hyperion said:

I always find those randomly placed props rather odd. A basket in front of a regular house is still ok, but shields and weapons everywhere certainly not. Either you had them close by or they were stored more or less securely.

Yeah, I'm not too fond of them either, but I've seen people complain about undecorated structures being too boring, and random pottery is better than random trees.

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5 minutes ago, Nescio said:

No: Ionic etc. have a foot, Doric columns don't. There are also differences in the shape of the shaft and the ridges, but those things are probably too small for use in game.

If you're making a new column specifically for this wonder, then make them smaller (more slender) than the ones used in the temple and current wonder and use more of them in the porticoes.

Ok, how about now? I removed the foot and made it a bit more slender.

Screenshot from 2021-03-14 15-44-58.png

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2 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Ok, how about now? I removed the foot and made it a bit more slender.

The shape looks good enough. I also stumbled upon a bit clearer image of Wikimedia Commons:

Spoiler

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Doric-order-labeled.jpg

I'm not sure you can fit in 16 columns on each side of the central courtyard, but it would be nice to give it a try and see how it looks, if that's not too much trouble.

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6 minutes ago, Nescio said:

I'm not sure you can fit in 16 columns on each side of the central courtyard, but it would be nice to give it a try and see how it looks, if that's not too much trouble.

The model would have to be twice as big for that to work. I can fit up to 8 right now. If put 16 of them, they'd have to be so slender that they would look like toothpicks. Or they would be too close to each other. I think we've hit a limitation of the game here. If the model was made at the correct scale, it would be humongous compared to, say, the houses or the barracks.

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