Civ: Scythians

[Genava55]

Scythian princess or priestess

https://www.inform.kz/ru/obshnost-kultur-proslezhivaetsya-na-prostranstve-velikoy-stepi-kazahstanskiy-restavrator-ea94d3

[Genava55]

Sarmatian

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/327424

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I've been working on the Scythians a lot lately for DE (and eventual inclusion on EA. R29?). Ported over a few assets from Endovelico. Made some actor and mesh improvements, rethought a few things, etc.

 

An updated direction for the Market. This is just a mockup, but easily accomplished:

 

Their "Academy" (Imperial Academy/Syssiton/Gymnaseion) structure, the Royal Yurt. Trains champions and heroes:

 

Stable, by @Duileoga:

 

Corral:

 

Ovoo:

 

Thoughts:

Google Translate now has the Ossetian language, which is the closest living language to Ancient Scythian. Let's leverage Ossetian for SpecificNaming. 

Nomadism

• Buildings auto-build, but have -50% health and capture points. While they are easier to destroy or capture, they also don't capture decay in neutral territory (they don't require territory roots).
• Receive special Ox Carts which are mobile resource dropsites (like the German ones) but can also transform into Houses and Storehouses at-will (and back) in own/allied/neutral territory.
• The Civic Center +25% territory influence radius (a great bonus), but its weight is -50% less than normal (their borders push much less against enemy borders than other civs do).
• Scythian Commoners (their Citizen-Civilians) have a range attack (use bows instead of knives) and an attack bonus vs. fauna. 
• These traits can go to any nomadic civilization we may include, such as Xiongnu or Huns.

Pastoralism

• Corral technologies research instantly. 
• Receive a special Corral technology: Extensive Husbandry (boosts ranching)
• Receive a special Corral technology: Falconry (boosts Cavalry vision range and hunting)

Raiders and Plunderers

• Scythian Maiden Huntresses +500% (TBD) loot while killing enemy units or destroying enemy buildings. These units are glass cannons, but if used right can more than pay for themselves in loot gained before they are killed. 
• Scythian Buildings and Units only give half-loot when killed.

Winds of the Steppe

• A team bonus for Cavalry or Stables or both.

The cult of Scythian Ares

• The Scythian Ovoos are their primary territory pushers. No other structures besides Civic Centers and the Fortress (see below) have territory radius effects. The Ovoo also has an aura that boosts soldier attacks ("Sword of Ares") and Priestess stats ("Cult of Ares"). Scythian Priestesses can also pray here to get resources (TBD). Ovoos cost stone and metal and are very very tough and uncapturable (must be destroyed). 
• Eventually we can create a new model which is the wooden platform with the sword at the top as described in the Histories. Maybe we can change the cost to Wood and Metal then, or give the Scythians the option to build either the stone ovoo or the wooden platform. 

Fortress

• The Scythians do receive a stone Fortress structure, but it's treated like a special building in that only 1 may be built. It becomes available in Town Phase.
• It has a territory radius, but functions more like a hard point for defense or offensive push, more typical of a redoubt.
• Fortress units (Champions and Heroes) are moved to the Royal Yurt (see image above, information below) as well as standard Fortress techs. The Fortress does get to train the Scythian Battering Ram in Town Phase and research the ram's relevant siege technologies.

Royal Yurt

• Their "Academy" type structure, similar to the Spartan Syssition, the Han Imperial Academy, and or the Athenian Gymnasium in that it trains Champions and Heroes and researches relevant techs.
• It's also given the standard Fortress techs, such as Espionage and Will to Fight. 
• Can invent a Special Tech for here. Maybe "Cavalry Tradition" or a special rank promotion tech applicable only to Cavalry.

Technologies

• A special Forge technology: Goldsmithing (a boost to Market/Trading). The only Forge tech in the game with a specific economic effect. 
• A special Forge technology: Composite Bows (boosts infantry and cavalry archers specifically). Replaces the final melee attack tech. 
• They receive Archery Tradition like the Persians. 
• Most technologies, except those in the Civic Center, take 25% longer to research or cost 20% more (TBD). 

I think something like I outlined (the exact values of things open for balance and design) keeps the core territory gameplay of 0 A.D., but adds enough distinctive features to make them feel a lot different than the other more "sedentary" civilizations. For DE specifically, I'll differentiate them even more with Cult Statues, Scouts, Cavalry are builders etc. But for EA I think what I've outlined is more than enough.

What think?

[Outis]

27 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

they don't require territory roots

They don't require territory roots after they are built right? You can still only build in own territory?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

19 minutes ago, Outis said:

They don't require territory roots after they are built right? You can still only build in own territory?

Right. Standard construction still requires own territory, but the buildings don't decay if cutoff from a root. The only thing that bypasses this is when you convert an Ox Cart to a house or storehouse in neutral territory. It's a nod to nomadism that doesn't completely remove the territory dynamic. 

[Genava55]

Herodotus and the Scythians, in Olbia 5th century BC. Artist: Evgeny Kray

[Genava55]

https://built-heritage.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43238-025-00191-2

Inner Asian and Eurasian nomadic camps comprise different types of guyed tents, mobile wood-framed dwellings and carts of various forms. One of the first available depictions originated from the Arjan Bowl, which was found in an Elamite grave in Iran and was dated 800–500 BCE (Majidzadeh 1992). It shows a rib tent (which would be dismantled for transport) with struts and a roof hoop (Fig. 3-D). Greek sources mention Scythian nomads residing in carts, e.g., Hesiod (eighth century BCE), in which Phineus is carried by the Harpies ‘to the land of the men who live on milk and who have their home in wagons’ (Hesiod, The Poems and Fragments (1908, 89, frag. 54). Aeschylus (525–456 BCE) mentioned ‘wattled dwellings, poised high on true wheeled carts’ (Aeschylus 1922, i, 278–279; Andrews (1999, 14) interpreted this passage as indicating that the dwellings were made of a frame woven from twigs or sticks (probably from willow), which was then fixed to the cart and covered by felt. The latter fact was noted by Hippocrates (ca. 460 to ca 377 BCE):

Comparison of the shapes and sizes of tents and tent carts from historical finds, depictions or photographs. All tents are scaled to the same size (as far as it was possible to determine the exact size). A Pazyrik cart, real find; (B-C) after clay models; (D) rib tent from the Arjan Bowl; (E-F) Xiongnu carts, birch-bark container in Tsaram; (G) Xiongnu carts, Shancheng coffin painting; (H) Sarmatian tent, tomb of Anthesterius, Crimea; (I) cart from a Tuoba coffin in Datong; (J) Tuoba tent from a grave in Datong; (K) Tibetan tent from a coffin painting in Delingha, Qinghai; (L) Khitan tent from the Wen-Chi scrolls; (M) Cuman carts, Radziwill chronicle; (N) Genghis Khan´s tent, Persian miniature; (O) Kalmyk, 1806 Bertuch Bilderbuch für Kinder; (P) Nogay cart, engraving; (Q) Turkoman tent in Afghanistan, drawing by William Simpson; (R) Chomchugh, refer to the text and Andrews (1999); (S) Kyrgyz kibitka (yurt) drawn by painter Vasily Vereschagin; (T) Avsar tent in Kayseri, photo by Gertrude Bell; (U) Kazakh tent, photo by Owen Lattimore; (V) Mongol yurt/tent, photo from the 1920s; (W) Mongol yurt/tent near Kalgan, photo by Stéphane Passet (1913); (X) Shasavan rib tent, Mount Sabalan, photo obtained in 2010

 

‘There too live Scythians who are called nomads because they have no houses but live in wagons. The smallest wagons have four wheels, others six wheels. They are covered with felt and are constructed like houses, sometimes in two compartments and sometimes in three, which are proof against rain, snow, and wind’ [refer to Hippocrates Vol I, De Aere xviii, translated by Jones (1923, 119)].

Models of four-wheeled wagons with tent-like superstructures dated to 600 BCE were found in Kerch in East Crimea. These were made of clay with small windows in their lower structure. The author´s reconstruction is based on such a clay wagon mock-up (Figs. 4, 5). Hippocrates also stated that women and children lived in carts, whereas men spent most of their time on horseback and tended to flock. No depictions of Scythian dwellings (apart from clay models) have been discovered, although in the Pazyrik Kurgan (third century BCE), a complete wooden ceremonial wagon was found. The wagon was preserved exceptionally well and is now on display in the Ermitage in Moscow.

Reconstructions (1-2 b) of a Scythian wagon (1) and Mingachevir cart (2) drawn by the author after clay models (1-2 a)

Reconstruction of a Scythian wagon camp

The first suggestion of tents that represent separate entities and are not part of carts is given with respect to Sarmatians. Strabo (53 BCE to ca. 21 CE) reported, ‘As for the nomads, their tents, made of felt, are fastened on the wagons in which they spend their lives, and round about the tents are the herds which afford the milk, cheese and meat on which they live, and they follow the grazing herd, from time to time moving to other places that have grass…’ (Strabo 1960), vii, 3, 17).

Whether these tents fastened to carts were frequently removed and placed on the ground, as the tent components of tent carts in later times would have been, is unclear. There is only one known depiction of a Sarmatian tent, which is set on the ground. It was depicted in a wall painting in a grave chamber in Kerch on the Crimea Peninsula. Unfortunately, it does not exist anymore. Relevant documentation can be found in Minns; Wajnstein (1996) attempted a rectangular reconstruction of the tent. In this work, the author aimed to reconstruct rectangular and round variants, as no definitive hint regarding the ground plan is given in the depiction (Fig. 6). A structural system was also reconstructed, with the following options: A: rectangular variant, 4-post inner structure; B: round variant, woven/wattled structure; C: round variant, rib-tent structure.

Depictions of a Sarmatian tent on a wall painting in Crimea (Source: Minns 1913). Shown below are reconstruction possibilities (Source: the author). It is possible to reconstruct the shape as a rectangular (A) or a round tent. For the round variant, a woven/wattled structure (B) or a rib-tent structure with a roof hoop (C) is possible

According to Priscus of Panium, who was a diplomatic envoy and therefore eye-witness of the camp of Attila the Hun, Attila’s wife Hereka lived in a circular building with a wooden frame covered in skins or leather. This passage is the only reference in which Hunnic dwellings are described as circular and possessing a wooden frame. However, this passage has been debated as the text is not clear, but recent work (Carolla 2019) supports both the circular shape and skin/leather covering. Elsewhere in the text, Hunnic buildings are described as huts (Greek: kalube), which indicates that they are semipermanent buildings. Alternatively, although they comprise a wooden frame, they could be covered with reeds (mats) or similar material (but not felt or skins). However, no indication of their shape is given. Later, sixth-century Greek emissaries to the Western Turk ruler also described framed tents as huts (kalube) (Andrews 1999). Thus, it is not completely clear what type of building or tent (?) Priscus had observed. The building of Attila was described as being made of wood, but again, no definite indication of the ground plan form was given, only of its material (‘it had been fitted together with highly polished timbers and boards’ (Priscus of Panium in Gordon 1960, 84). The dwelling of Hereka is described as follows:

‘Inside the wall [of the compound of Attila], there was a big cluster of buildings, some made of planks carved and fitted together for ornamental effect, … the other [houses were made] of leather polished and cut straight/upright, put into some wooden circular basis. I gained entrance through the barbarians at the door and came upon her lying on a soft spread. The floor was covered with mats of felted wool’ (Priscus of Panium trans. Carolla 2019). Please also refer to Fig. 7.

The extensive use of felt inside Hereka’s dwelling indicates a nomadic building context in any case. The custom to cover trellis tents in skins or furs and not felt exists ina nomadic historical context, e.g., there is a trellis tent of the Mongolian Bogd Khan from the 19th century covered in snow leopard skins (furs) on display in the Winter Palace of the Bogd Khan in Ulaan Bataar.

Highly hypothetical drawing containing all the elements mentioned by Priscus of Panium, as observed by him in Attila’s capital during the fiveth century. 1, Attila’s compound with gate doors and wooden palisade with towers; 2, Attila’s dining hall/house at an elevated location; 3, Hereka’s tent; 4, buildings made of carved wood; 5, porticoes; 6, Onegesius' compound with a wooden enclosure without towers; 7, Roman bath built of stone by a captive architect from Syrmium

In East Asia, there are several depictions of Xiongnu dwellings from the first century. To date, three scratched drawings/decorations of birch-bark containers show Xiongnu dwellings. These depictions all show the same dwelling type (Fig. 8): a round, domed hut with walls made of diagonally crossing lines (probably twigs or sticks). In some cases, this diagonally crossing structure extends to form the dome of the building. The dwelling comprises vertical walls, which, in every case, terminate in a horizontal band spanning the whole dwelling (a textile band holding the hut together, as in the case of modern trellis tents?). If there is a drawn door, it also reaches this horizontal band. The dome is often covered with what seem to be vertical stripes of different materials. At times, the walls are additionally wrapped with crosswise textile bands, and the walls can contain windows. An opening at the apex of the dome-like roof is not shown in any depiction (But its presence cannot be ruled out either). There are always two vertical sticks connected by a horizontal stick above the roof. The function of this construction is described later and is very similar to that in Tuoba Xianbei depictions (Fig. 9): very likely, an awning spanned above the dwelling to shade it (However, there is no Xiognu depiction were we actually can see such an awning in the drawing itself). The dwellings are often shown placed on carts. Moreover, the cart wheels encompass spokes, and the cart type is a two-wheeled cart. Written sources support the conclusions drawn from the images: The Xiongnu also employed ‘domed huts for homes’ (Huan 1994, 38) and ‘woven branches to make houses’ (Huan 1994, 52; Miller 2012).

Depictions of Xiongnu carts found on a birch-bark container in Tsaram (after Minyaev (2009). Shown below is a line drawing of the scratchings and a reconstruction by the author. The awning above the cart was added as an analogy from fifth-century Tuoba Xianbei cart depictions

Tuoba Xianbei cart depictions from coffin planks from Zhijiapu (Source: Liu and Gao 2005)

@wowgetoffyourcellphone@Lopess

I highly recommend to read the entire article.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

13 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

 

Reconstructions (1-2 b) of a Scythian wagon (1) and Mingachevir cart (2) drawn by the author after clay models (1-2 a)

I think we can make a new prop to go on the back of the wagon cart that looks like this. The cones sticking out from the wheels over the hubs would make for a nice little detail too. 

[Duileoga]

On 31/03/2025 at 9:56 PM, Genava55 said:

Sarmatian

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/327424

Buenos días tarde o noches;

-Me gusta mucho, pero pone que es de los siglos 1-2 d.c ¿No hay nada sármata de los siglos V-I a.C?(Para que entren en los estándares del juego.)

19 hours ago, Genava55 said:

https://built-heritage.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43238-025-00191-2

Inner Asian and Eurasian nomadic camps comprise different types of guyed tents, mobile wood-framed dwellings and carts of various forms. One of the first available depictions originated from the Arjan Bowl, which was found in an Elamite grave in Iran and was dated 800–500 BCE (Majidzadeh 1992). It shows a rib tent (which would be dismantled for transport) with struts and a roof hoop (Fig. 3-D). Greek sources mention Scythian nomads residing in carts, e.g., Hesiod (eighth century BCE), in which Phineus is carried by the Harpies ‘to the land of the men who live on milk and who have their home in wagons’ (Hesiod, The Poems and Fragments (1908, 89, frag. 54). Aeschylus (525–456 BCE) mentioned ‘wattled dwellings, poised high on true wheeled carts’ (Aeschylus 1922, i, 278–279; Andrews (1999, 14) interpreted this passage as indicating that the dwellings were made of a frame woven from twigs or sticks (probably from willow), which was then fixed to the cart and covered by felt. The latter fact was noted by Hippocrates (ca. 460 to ca 377 BCE):

Comparison of the shapes and sizes of tents and tent carts from historical finds, depictions or photographs. All tents are scaled to the same size (as far as it was possible to determine the exact size). A Pazyrik cart, real find; (B-C) after clay models; (D) rib tent from the Arjan Bowl; (E-F) Xiongnu carts, birch-bark container in Tsaram; (G) Xiongnu carts, Shancheng coffin painting; (H) Sarmatian tent, tomb of Anthesterius, Crimea; (I) cart from a Tuoba coffin in Datong; (J) Tuoba tent from a grave in Datong; (K) Tibetan tent from a coffin painting in Delingha, Qinghai; (L) Khitan tent from the Wen-Chi scrolls; (M) Cuman carts, Radziwill chronicle; (N) Genghis Khan´s tent, Persian miniature; (O) Kalmyk, 1806 Bertuch Bilderbuch für Kinder; (P) Nogay cart, engraving; (Q) Turkoman tent in Afghanistan, drawing by William Simpson; (R) Chomchugh, refer to the text and Andrews (1999); (S) Kyrgyz kibitka (yurt) drawn by painter Vasily Vereschagin; (T) Avsar tent in Kayseri, photo by Gertrude Bell; (U) Kazakh tent, photo by Owen Lattimore; (V) Mongol yurt/tent, photo from the 1920s; (W) Mongol yurt/tent near Kalgan, photo by Stéphane Passet (1913); (X) Shasavan rib tent, Mount Sabalan, photo obtained in 2010

 

‘There too live Scythians who are called nomads because they have no houses but live in wagons. The smallest wagons have four wheels, others six wheels. They are covered with felt and are constructed like houses, sometimes in two compartments and sometimes in three, which are proof against rain, snow, and wind’ [refer to Hippocrates Vol I, De Aere xviii, translated by Jones (1923, 119)].

Models of four-wheeled wagons with tent-like superstructures dated to 600 BCE were found in Kerch in East Crimea. These were made of clay with small windows in their lower structure. The author´s reconstruction is based on such a clay wagon mock-up (Figs. 4, 5). Hippocrates also stated that women and children lived in carts, whereas men spent most of their time on horseback and tended to flock. No depictions of Scythian dwellings (apart from clay models) have been discovered, although in the Pazyrik Kurgan (third century BCE), a complete wooden ceremonial wagon was found. The wagon was preserved exceptionally well and is now on display in the Ermitage in Moscow.

Reconstructions (1-2 b) of a Scythian wagon (1) and Mingachevir cart (2) drawn by the author after clay models (1-2 a)

Reconstruction of a Scythian wagon camp

The first suggestion of tents that represent separate entities and are not part of carts is given with respect to Sarmatians. Strabo (53 BCE to ca. 21 CE) reported, ‘As for the nomads, their tents, made of felt, are fastened on the wagons in which they spend their lives, and round about the tents are the herds which afford the milk, cheese and meat on which they live, and they follow the grazing herd, from time to time moving to other places that have grass…’ (Strabo 1960), vii, 3, 17).

Whether these tents fastened to carts were frequently removed and placed on the ground, as the tent components of tent carts in later times would have been, is unclear. There is only one known depiction of a Sarmatian tent, which is set on the ground. It was depicted in a wall painting in a grave chamber in Kerch on the Crimea Peninsula. Unfortunately, it does not exist anymore. Relevant documentation can be found in Minns; Wajnstein (1996) attempted a rectangular reconstruction of the tent. In this work, the author aimed to reconstruct rectangular and round variants, as no definitive hint regarding the ground plan is given in the depiction (Fig. 6). A structural system was also reconstructed, with the following options: A: rectangular variant, 4-post inner structure; B: round variant, woven/wattled structure; C: round variant, rib-tent structure.

Depictions of a Sarmatian tent on a wall painting in Crimea (Source: Minns 1913). Shown below are reconstruction possibilities (Source: the author). It is possible to reconstruct the shape as a rectangular (A) or a round tent. For the round variant, a woven/wattled structure (B) or a rib-tent structure with a roof hoop (C) is possible

According to Priscus of Panium, who was a diplomatic envoy and therefore eye-witness of the camp of Attila the Hun, Attila’s wife Hereka lived in a circular building with a wooden frame covered in skins or leather. This passage is the only reference in which Hunnic dwellings are described as circular and possessing a wooden frame. However, this passage has been debated as the text is not clear, but recent work (Carolla 2019) supports both the circular shape and skin/leather covering. Elsewhere in the text, Hunnic buildings are described as huts (Greek: kalube), which indicates that they are semipermanent buildings. Alternatively, although they comprise a wooden frame, they could be covered with reeds (mats) or similar material (but not felt or skins). However, no indication of their shape is given. Later, sixth-century Greek emissaries to the Western Turk ruler also described framed tents as huts (kalube) (Andrews 1999). Thus, it is not completely clear what type of building or tent (?) Priscus had observed. The building of Attila was described as being made of wood, but again, no definite indication of the ground plan form was given, only of its material (‘it had been fitted together with highly polished timbers and boards’ (Priscus of Panium in Gordon 1960, 84). The dwelling of Hereka is described as follows:

‘Inside the wall [of the compound of Attila], there was a big cluster of buildings, some made of planks carved and fitted together for ornamental effect, … the other [houses were made] of leather polished and cut straight/upright, put into some wooden circular basis. I gained entrance through the barbarians at the door and came upon her lying on a soft spread. The floor was covered with mats of felted wool’ (Priscus of Panium trans. Carolla 2019). Please also refer to Fig. 7.

The extensive use of felt inside Hereka’s dwelling indicates a nomadic building context in any case. The custom to cover trellis tents in skins or furs and not felt exists ina nomadic historical context, e.g., there is a trellis tent of the Mongolian Bogd Khan from the 19th century covered in snow leopard skins (furs) on display in the Winter Palace of the Bogd Khan in Ulaan Bataar.

Highly hypothetical drawing containing all the elements mentioned by Priscus of Panium, as observed by him in Attila’s capital during the fiveth century. 1, Attila’s compound with gate doors and wooden palisade with towers; 2, Attila’s dining hall/house at an elevated location; 3, Hereka’s tent; 4, buildings made of carved wood; 5, porticoes; 6, Onegesius' compound with a wooden enclosure without towers; 7, Roman bath built of stone by a captive architect from Syrmium

In East Asia, there are several depictions of Xiongnu dwellings from the first century. To date, three scratched drawings/decorations of birch-bark containers show Xiongnu dwellings. These depictions all show the same dwelling type (Fig. 8): a round, domed hut with walls made of diagonally crossing lines (probably twigs or sticks). In some cases, this diagonally crossing structure extends to form the dome of the building. The dwelling comprises vertical walls, which, in every case, terminate in a horizontal band spanning the whole dwelling (a textile band holding the hut together, as in the case of modern trellis tents?). If there is a drawn door, it also reaches this horizontal band. The dome is often covered with what seem to be vertical stripes of different materials. At times, the walls are additionally wrapped with crosswise textile bands, and the walls can contain windows. An opening at the apex of the dome-like roof is not shown in any depiction (But its presence cannot be ruled out either). There are always two vertical sticks connected by a horizontal stick above the roof. The function of this construction is described later and is very similar to that in Tuoba Xianbei depictions (Fig. 9): very likely, an awning spanned above the dwelling to shade it (However, there is no Xiognu depiction were we actually can see such an awning in the drawing itself). The dwellings are often shown placed on carts. Moreover, the cart wheels encompass spokes, and the cart type is a two-wheeled cart. Written sources support the conclusions drawn from the images: The Xiongnu also employed ‘domed huts for homes’ (Huan 1994, 38) and ‘woven branches to make houses’ (Huan 1994, 52; Miller 2012).

Depictions of Xiongnu carts found on a birch-bark container in Tsaram (after Minyaev (2009). Shown below is a line drawing of the scratchings and a reconstruction by the author. The awning above the cart was added as an analogy from fifth-century Tuoba Xianbei cart depictions

Tuoba Xianbei cart depictions from coffin planks from Zhijiapu (Source: Liu and Gao 2005)

@wowgetoffyourcellphone@Lopess

I highly recommend to read the entire article.

 

-Leo que hay varias cosas de los Sármatas en este foro¿Se podrían poner en un foro propio a parte"Civ:Sarmatians"?

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Classic-Burger]

28 minutes ago, Duileoga said:

Buenos días tarde o noches;

-Me gusta mucho, pero pone que es de los siglos 1-2 d.c ¿No hay nada sármata de los siglos V-I a.C?(Para que entren en los estándares del juego.)

-Leo que hay varias cosas de los Sármatas en este foro¿Se podrían poner en un foro propio a parte"Civ:Sarmatians"?

 

Disculpen las molestias*

Can you make some of the buildings shown here?

 

 

[Genava55]

57 minutes ago, Duileoga said:

-Me gusta mucho, pero pone que es de los siglos 1-2 d.c ¿No hay nada sármata de los siglos V-I a.C?(Para que entren en los estándares del juego.)

The Sarmatians are very closely related to the Scythians. They share a similar language that belongs to the Iranian language family. The real differences between the Sarmatians and the Scythians stem from the fact that the Scythians dominated the steppes between the 8th and 3rd centuries BCE, while the Sarmatians dominated the steppes between the 3rd century BCE and the 4th century CE. 

From an archaeological point of view, the material is divided chronologically into different periods:
The Sauromatian period (6th-4th century BCE).
The Early Sarmatian period (4th century BCE-1st century BCE).
The Middle Sarmatian period (1st century BCE - 2nd century CE).
The Late Sarmatian period (2nd century CE - 4th century CE).

There is one iconic site for the first two periods: the Filippovka kurgans. 

As you can see below, it is quite close to the Scythian material culture. 

There are two known characters from the early period:

Tasius, a king of the Roxolani (Strabo, Geographie, 7.3.17)

Amage, a queen of the Sarmatians (Polyaenus, Strategemata 8.56)

 

[Genava55]

17 hours ago, Duileoga said:

Leo que hay varias cosas de los Sármatas en este foro¿Se podrían poner en un foro propio a parte"Civ:Sarmatians"?

 

Here this current topic is in the section "Delenda Est".

Are you asking for a dedicated topic for this mod or for another mod?

[nifa]

nice work, I have a completed a kurgan wonder in the meantime, that I can share with you soon

[Classic-Burger]

13 minutes ago, nifa said:

nice work, I have a completed a kurgan wonder in the meantime, that I can share with you soon

Those stones look like they're from mining.They look very bright. Shouldn't they have mold and dampness?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, nifa said:

nice work, I have a completed a kurgan wonder in the meantime, that I can share with you soon

I think this is the best attempt so far at a Kurgan. I'm not sure what the volcano part is about though.  

[LienRag]

I haven't read the 14 pages here so my apologies if it has already been mentioned, but I played Scythians recently (don't remember which mod, I guess the Scythian one ? certainly not Delenda Est) and they have no dock ?

Is that on purpose ?

[nifa]

1 hour ago, LienRag said:

I haven't read the 14 pages here so my apologies if it has already been mentioned, but I played Scythians recently (don't remember which mod, I guess the Scythian one ? certainly not Delenda Est) and they have no dock ?

Is that on purpose ?

the scythians are meant to have one too, though it's ahistorical, but the art is still missing

On 05/11/2025 at 5:59 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think this is the best attempt so far at a Kurgan. I'm not sure what the volcano part is about though.  

lol, never realized it looked like a volcano. There is an entrance under it, with a sacrificial place inside, where the fire is burning. I used this model as hp: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/anta-grande-do-zambujeiro-5f328a5d7cdd4f96b9a4dcacb426348e

I can get rid of the fire and add a stone that covers it so it looks more like a cave. What would you think? And I'm also planning to darken it. The original model as bad lightning from the sun in it.

It's an attempt to deal with the problem that there are not really many possible props. Otherwise it would be just a plain hill and look kinda naked. The positioning is of the steles and the props is definitely up for discussion. I'm not saying I'm completely happy with it. Same with the colors.

The other major problem with this task was the part where the mesh touches the surrounding topography. It's an organic building, so it can't just have a foundation. That's why I decided to go with gravel stones around the base. They will look cleaner in the final version.

Edited November 6 by nifa

[Genava55]

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

14 hours ago, nifa said:

lol, never realized it looked like a volcano. There is an entrance under it, with a sacrificial place inside, where the fire is burning. I used this model as hp: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/anta-grande-do-zambujeiro-5f328a5d7cdd4f96b9a4dcacb426348e

I can get rid of the fire and add a stone that covers it so it looks more like a cave. What would you think? And I'm also planning to darken it. The original model as bad lightning from the sun in it.

It's an attempt to deal with the problem that there are not really many possible props. Otherwise it would be just a plain hill and look kinda naked. The positioning is of the steles and the props is definitely up for discussion. I'm not saying I'm completely happy with it. Same with the colors.

The other major problem with this task was the part where the mesh touches the surrounding topography. It's an organic building, so it can't just have a foundation. That's why I decided to go with gravel stones around the base. They will look cleaner in the final version.

I'd say keep the entrance part, but remove the volcano. We've seen several artistic images of Kurgans, at least temporarily, having an entrance. 

For the stele, I think they should have a more regular pattern to their layout.

For the rocks along the base, I think they look too chaotic right now. I agree there needs to be something to help the hill of the kurgan to blend with the existing terrain mesh and rocks are a good way to do it, it's just too chaotic looking right now. You are on the right track. I appreciate the attempt at some detail at the top, but in no reference or even artistic interpretation have I seen a pile of rocks at the top, though I am open to being wrong. You did a really good job UV mapping the grass on the hillside. Most of the other attempts from other artists have kinda failed at this detail. I appreciate the effort and would really like to see you keep iterating on this and making something nice. I'd also like it if you made a 2nd custom mesh for its foundation actor too, because as you've noted, it's quite a different construction from other buildings in the game. 

[Classic-Burger]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I'd say keep the entrance part, but remove the volcano. We've seen several artistic images of Kurgans, at least temporarily, having an entrance. 

For the stele, I think they should have a more regular pattern to their layout.

For the rocks along the base, I think they look too chaotic right now. I agree there needs to be something to help the hill of the kurgan to blend with the existing terrain mesh and rocks are a good way to do it, it's just too chaotic looking right now. 

Very chaotic and very clean The stones should be dirty, for a gigantic stone mine with steps and wooden structures it looks beautiful.

 

[Duileoga]

Buenos día, tardes o noches;

On 04/11/2025 at 10:56 AM, Genava55 said:

Here this current topic is in the section "Delenda Est".

Are you asking for a dedicated topic for this mod or for another mod?

-Me refiero a hacer un foro como este (sobre los escitas) en la sección "Delenda Est" pero para los sármatas.La información sobre las dos culturas está muy mezclada.

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Genava55]

1 hour ago, Duileoga said:

Buenos día, tardes o noches;

-Me refiero a hacer un foro como este (sobre los escitas) en la sección "Delenda Est" pero para los sármatas.La información sobre las dos culturas está muy mezclada.

 

Disculpen las molestias*

Delenda Est doesn't restrict itself to the period 500 BC - 1 BC. This is why I am asking where do you want to create this thread because the framework is not the same.

You seem to focus on the earlier periods of the Sarmatians. 

And to explain a bit the confusion about the various nomads, it is due to different interpretation from ancient and modern historians. Herodotus mentionned different tribes related to the Scythians, for him it seems they were the same ethnical group. The same for the Persians who seem to have mentionned various Scythian tribes (called Saka by the Persians) which seem to correspond to a very large area and very distant tribes. So for them, the Scythians or Sakas were related. For them, the Pontic Scythians, the Sauromatians, the Dahae, the Massagetae and other Saka tribes were labeled under the same name.

In archaeology, it is sometimes called 'Scythian phenomenon' to avoid using the term of Scythian culture. 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

For Sarmatians, I'd say focus on the era when they had the most impact on their neighbors and/or were their most powerful. I know this can be vague, but I think a good reference point can be decided. 

[Duileoga]

On 07/11/2025 at 12:07 PM, Genava55 said:

Delenda Est doesn't restrict itself to the period 500 BC - 1 BC. This is why I am asking where do you want to create this thread because the framework is not the same.

You seem to focus on the earlier periods of the Sarmatians. 

And to explain a bit the confusion about the various nomads, it is due to different interpretation from ancient and modern historians. Herodotus mentionned different tribes related to the Scythians, for him it seems they were the same ethnical group. The same for the Persians who seem to have mentionned various Scythian tribes (called Saka by the Persians) which seem to correspond to a very large area and very distant tribes. So for them, the Scythians or Sakas were related. For them, the Pontic Scythians, the Sauromatians, the Dahae, the Massagetae and other Saka tribes were labeled under the same name.

In archaeology, it is sometimes called 'Scythian phenomenon' to avoid using the term of Scythian culture. 

 

Buenos días ,tarde o noches;

-Muchas gracias por la aclaración, no se preocupe, miraré este foro en busca de información y referencias para las distintas tribus de la cultura, influencia o fenómeno Escita. Encontré algunos foros concretos sobre los sármatas pero este es el mejor foro.

 

-Para el mod Endovélico ,TODAS LAS CULTURAS abarcan del 500 a.c-1 d.c, en el que estoy trabajando con @Lopess ya tenemos varias facciones escitas:

• Escitas
• Sármatas
• Yuezhi
• Dahae

Escitas

-Me inspiré sobre todo en las tribus de Asia central ,como los Massagetae(Uzbekistán),así que solo requiere un ligero cambio de nombres y los empezaré a denominar como "Masagetas". ¿Mejor así @Genava55?

 

Sármatas

 

 

Yuezhi

 

Dahae

(Los Dahae serían una facción nómada plena ,pero con la descarga de una tecnología cultural única ,se podrían convertir en la facción sedentaria de los Arsácidas/parthians,mudando la apariencia de los edificios , unisdades etc... )

 

Arsácidas/parthians

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

Edited 4 hours ago by Duileoga

[Genava55]

3 hours ago, Duileoga said:

-Me inspiré sobre todo en las tribus de Asia central ,como los Massagetae(Uzbekistán),así que solo requiere un ligero cambio de nombres y los empezaré a denominar como "Masagetas". ¿Mejor así @Genava55?

The Massagetae are neighbors of the Dahae. They live near the Aral Sea. The Persians mention several peoples among the Saka/Scythians:

• Sakâ Haumavargâ – Scythians who prepare the sacred drink haoma

• Sakâ Trigraxaudâ – Scythians with pointed caps

• Sakâ tyaiy paradraya – Scythians from beyond the sea

• Sakâ tyaiy para Sugdam – Scythians from beyond Sogdiana

It is very likely that the Sakâ Haumavargâ are the Amyrgians, a people difficult to locate but who must have lived close to the Massagetae. The Sakâ Trigraxaudâ are generally identified as the Massagetae. The Sakâ tyaiy paradraya are the Scythian peoples of the Pontic steppe, north of the Black Sea. They are divided into several groups, but the most powerful call themselves the Royal Scythians. Finally, the Sakâ tyaiy para Sugdam are probably distant Scythian peoples located north of Sogdiana, perhaps the Saraucae, who would invade the kingdoms of Bactria and Sogdiana in the 2nd century BCE.

For me, there are several Scythian-related events that are particularly interesting. First, the campaigns of Cyrus the Great against the Massagetae and the Amyrgians. Then the campaigns of Darius against the Pontic Scythians—a long expedition around the Black Sea. There are also the campaigns of Philip II and Alexander the Great against the Scythians near the Danube, difficult wars that even caused a few defeats for the Macedonians. There are the wars between the Scythians and the Greek Bosporan Kingdom in Crimea. Finally, the destruction of the Greek kingdom of Bactria, the successive deaths of Phraates II and Artabanus I, and the eventual creation of the Indo-Scythian kingdom in northern India. It is a very rich history spread across a vast territory with many peoples. Most remain nomadic, but some Scythian groups do become sedentary.

I think the Royal Scythians, the Massagetae and the Sakaraukai/Saraucae are all three interesting nomadic Scythians from different areas.

3 hours ago, Duileoga said:

(Los Dahae serían una facción nómada plena ,pero con la descarga de una tecnología cultural única ,se podrían convertir en la facción sedentaria de los Arsácidas/parthians,mudando la apariencia de los edificios , unisdades etc... )

This is a good idea but maybe it should be directly integrated into the Parthians civ. Starting as a nomadic tribe and becoming a Persian empire is original. 

Edited 8 minutes ago by Genava55