Wonders, Special Buildings, and Special Projects

[sanderd17]

Most of the wonders weren't that big, remember the Great Pyramid was both the tallest and overall largest of them all and this is included as a 3D model... I think I saw the hanging gardens of Babylon in there too. Historic writers tended to overemphasise how large these things were, and even when they gave dimensions, there was no standardised unit of measurement in the ancient world and many of the units they used, the true lengths are no longer known.

As far as I'm aware, the Collosus of Rhodes would have been the largest statue anyone in the Eastern Med would have seen, but was still probably far smaller than today's Statue of Liberty.

Real dimensions aren't that important. If everything was modelled to scale, the infantry units would be so small that it would be hard to select them. So in general, buildings are a bit under-sized.

It's more important that a model looks correctly scaled on its own. And that players do get the perception that something is a wonder.

[oshron]

rescaling the historic wonders to game proportions is an acceptable break from reality

personally, i think there should be a standard maximum width (in all directions, e.g., the base of a Wonder should be a perfect square rather than a rectangle or a circle) and a standard maximum height, with Wonders to scale with their historical counterparts (if that can be determined; as mentioned before, some units of measurement that were used to describe them are not only no longer used, but the dimensions of such aren't known either). so, for example, in-game the standard height of a wonder could be a 100 feet (that's 30 meters for our non-American members ) with a 50x50 ft (30x30 m) base. the Wonders would proportionately be as close to their historical counterparts as possible even if they're a little off-scale, either larger or smaller

[Lion.Kanzen]

but with colossus the ships navigates between colossus's legs

[oshron]

that doesn't work very well for functionality, though. maybe there can be two editor-only eye candy buildings simulating two halves of the Colossus, one left side and one right side, which are to scale with the actual Colossus and can be placed on opposite sides of a pathway/waterway. in this way, the complete Colossus can still appear in the game in its original incarnation without obstructing any other units (the obstruction tiles would only be around the feet while the rest of the Colossus extends to the sides.

but seriously, do you want to have your units sailing under some giant bronze guy's junk?

for gameplay, it would be much easier to have the Colossus positioned more like this:

see? grand, majestic, powerful. THAT'S something i'd want to build in my empire to signify the defeat of an invasion. build him right next to the shore and he looks out, taunting my enemies on the next island over. he's all like "What'cha gonna do about it, a**hole? I've got a hundred catapults guardin' this harbor! "

Edited May 21, 2013 by oshron

[Lion.Kanzen]

that is the point, i like that last that Historical, may be with Helios aura lights in his head

[sanderd17]

that doesn't work very well for functionality, though. maybe there can be two editor-only eye candy buildings simulating two halves of the Colossus, one left side and one right side, which are to scale with the actual Colossus and can be placed on opposite sides of a pathway/waterway. in this way, the complete Colossus can still appear in the game in its original incarnation without obstructing any other units (the obstruction tiles would only be around the feet while the rest of the Colossus extends to the sides.

On the other hand, a gate is a single model with a passable hole. So if you just leave out the animation and the controls, it should be possible. I don't know how though.

[McAllisterw]

Was gonna say, I'm fairly certain (or rather not me, historians are fairly certain) that the Collosus didn't actually straddle the harbour.

I like how the illustration Oshron posted seems to suggest that rather than settle with a single Collosus, ancient Rhodes was more of a collosus factory.

Edited May 21, 2013 by McAllisterw

[oshron]

On the other hand, a gate is a single model with a passable hole. So if you just leave out the animation and the controls, it should be possible. I don't know how though.

fair point. though the Colossus straddled the entrance to a harbor, so would such a gate even be possible gameplay wise? the idea with the two separate parts positioned together is such that it can technically be placed anywhere, over pathways OR waterways, without blocking the passage at all

incidentally, an idea just occurred to me: perhaps there could also be an aesthetics-only building showing the Colossus in a ruined state, as the historical Colossus was knocked over in an earthquake less than a hundred years after it was built and its ruins were visited by the people of the time in the same way that the Parthenon is visited today. this would be useful not only for a historical context but also for designing fictional settings. imagine a group of named characters are traveling through the desert and they pass by a ruined Colossus. it has no other bearing on the story, just a sign of a long extinct civilization that used to live in the desert, teh last remaining sign that they ever existed

though including a Colossus Gate would be another cool addition, again for situation use. it could perhaps be perched on a taller-and-thicker-than-normal gate.

is this a current model for the game, or is it from something else? it looks like one of the earlier AOE games

[Lion.Kanzen]

..

nop is rise of nations but is not bad model, is very similar if we can do something mixed Liberty Statue (Tourch, pose and rays in her Head ) and That Version can be Similar

[frenchiveruti]

nop is rise of nations but is not bad model, is very similar if we can do something mixed Liberty Statue (Tourch, pose and rays in her Head ) and That Version can be Similar

Yeah, also the one from Civilization III could be usefull, but RON's model is a great model to use.

[Sighvatr]

Perhaps a wonder could be given technology to research. That or I thought it was agreed that the wonders would have an effect. The lighthouse in Alexandria for example would reveal the fog of war in water.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Happens in New York and Rhodes.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[oshron]

Perhaps a wonder could be given technology to research. That or I thought it was agreed that the wonders would have an effect. The lighthouse in Alexandria for example would reveal the fog of war in water.

iirc, we had figured that buildable Wonders would all have the same three effects (for balance purposes) and that editor-only versions of all the Wonders (and some additional ones, like the Colossus) would have unique effects more closely associated with what the Wonders stood for (like the Hanging Gardens giving you a farming bonus). the skirmish-mode wonder effects were figured as Imperialism, Hegemony, and Alliance, which affect the territorial influence of yourself, your enemies, or your allies (Hegemony negatively affects them)

Mythos_Ruler came up with this, not me, just to be clear

[Squalox]

Look, this are iberians monuments. All places of Iberian Peninsula.

-1: estelas de Fuentecilla del Tio Carrulo

-2: Sepulcro de Pozo Moro (10 Meters high)

-3: pilar-estela de Monforte del Cid

-4: Verraco

-5: dolmen of Menga

And there more

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

[Mythos_Ruler]

iirc, we had figured that buildable Wonders would all have the same three effects (for balance purposes) and that editor-only versions of all the Wonders (and some additional ones, like the Colossus) would have unique effects more closely associated with what the Wonders stood for (like the Hanging Gardens giving you a farming bonus). the skirmish-mode wonder effects were figured as Imperialism, Hegemony, and Alliance, which affect the territorial influence of yourself, your enemies, or your allies (Hegemony negatively affects them)

Mythos_Ruler came up with this, not me, just to be clear

Gameplay-wise, this is something that makes sense to me and would make Wonders unique to 0 A.D., using 0 A.D.'s dynamic territories to full effect.

[Nelafix]

I know someone already suggested a stela as a wonder for Carthaginians, but what about the Temple of Baal and Astarte, which served as one of the first universities in antiquity? It was composed of four temple complexes or so, although it'd need a bit of imagination for that one.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Nelafix

[Pureon]

I believe we're currently using the Punic Mausoleum of Ateban as a wonder for the Carthaginians.

Do you have any information about the Temple of Baal and Astarte?

[Nelafix]

Only this as of now.

[Pureon]

What's new in this screenshot:

View full size image

(It's a new special building for the Persians - some new eyecandy)

[Nolanjoker]

what do this new building how works, what units can train or what technology can research.?

Edited August 5, 2013 by Nolanjoker

[Loki1950]

If you are using the svn version just fire up the game and find out one is the blacksmith's shop which does have a few techs associated with it that vary with the civ,not sure about the other as I haven't fired up the game since Pureon committed it

Enjoy the Choice

[Pureon]

At the moment the central building (l'm calling it a 'Palace') doesn't do anything, it's just a bit of eyecandy based on one of LordGood's concepts

[Nolanjoker]

the Palace was all I could look

Edited August 5, 2013 by Nolanjoker

[sanderd17]

Nice. Is that palace in svn now?

I can't find it (unless I search on the wrong names).

[Pureon]

Not yet. It's ready to commit though, I just haven't had time to do it.