Jagsus gets his hands on R28- witness my rant

[Arup]

before I start yapping about r28, clarify me this: Is this a finished version? you all thought this balance and design is "decent" enough? or is there chance for revival of balance?

[Atrik]

They will be no balance changes anymore for R28. But if you want to whine, you should stay respectful to those who worked on the release. For balancing, currently @real_tabasco_sauce is the code owner of the templates (unit and tech stats) and he is often open to suggestions.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

if something is considered a balance "emergency" it can be changed still, provided that it doesn't touch strings. There were some of these before the Han were introduced.

5 hours ago, Atrik said:

For balancing, currently @real_tabasco_sauce is the code owner of the templates

I wouldn't put it that way, but that is what I typically work on.

@Arup care to elaborate?

[Arup]

so,let me get this clear: You think there is nothing particularly problematic with the balance in R28?

22 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

if something is considered a balance "emergency" it can be changed still, provided that it doesn't touch strings. There were some of these before the Han were introduced.

I wouldn't put it that way, but that is what I typically work on.

@Arup care to elaborate?

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Just tell me what is imbalanced…

[diagonalo]

@real_tabasco_sauce @BreakfastBurrito_007
@guerringuerrin @Atrik @chrstgtr @borg-

tl;dr; move Migratory Settlement and Wagon Trains techs to P3 and/or nerf them; Germans combine all the strongest CS and cav unit types so make some units more difficult to access

I think there is one too many units in the Germans' barrack. All other civs have at most 4 units in barracks including merc not-including champs. Maybe remove the spearmen ? Currently they not only have sword-skirm as Romans and spear-sling like Britons but ALSO are allowed to make P1 clubmen which might be broken if they weren't so weak.

Tbfh the Migratory Settlement tech needs to nerfed or removed because it goes against all territory mechanics. I capture a barrack in your city ? Ok, I don't even need to garrison it. I capture a tower, a house; have fun recapturing it ! All that in P2 for cheap. (btw it would be cool if capture could move backed to right-click by default as it's a common issue for nubs)

There are some issues regarding the camp/wagons. I think @Arup said resistance/capture points are too high with the upgrade. I think the population bonus tech should be moved to P3. It's quite powerful if you use only wagons as storehouses which are already 25 res less than a storehouse/farmstead. Now you get a free 75 res house which makes spamming wagons and then doing Home Garden/Manors and delete them if you really need the small pop space a no-brainer.

As for champ cav I'm not up-to date but here is my take. Lowering the health seems like a good idea but it might not be enough to stop them being banned in TGs. One of the principal issues is the comparatively strong Persian/Seleucid cataphracts. Nerfing the tech, speed etc. is fine but why would you make them +2 resistances ?? They already got the hero and the issue with champ cav is that they are too strong against infantry and melee for cav. Some might say this is making the problem much worse than it already is. Also it's nice you can now hit and run with your other spear cav but the cataphract will still win and survive with about 40% health. (also a minor nerf to fanatics would be appreciated so the 1300 player doesn't instantly die and the ecobot-spammer has to go P3 to win against him)

On top of that the Germans now can pre-build small cheap champ building in P2 and then start spamming swords champ cav 1 minute earlier than the Romans.

One should get rid off the champ building. There is already 2 other places where you can get log rams. Move the champ cav to the stables and do the customary unlock tech and the champ axemen to the barrack (to P3; but it's not really a problem with the high metal cost) and remove the spear- or swordsman there.

Also pls buff archer so that @SenatorLEVI will return to the game.

All in all if you liked your favorite broken civ the Gauls, you might also like this ... the Germans !!

[Arup]

In Rise of Nations, there was that civ which could make build whereever the f it wanted to.. some american tribe I forgot.. probably the incans.. and they were broken af!! the Germans seems to be that in 0AD where you can migrate so easily.. I suggest that you limit the max number of CC for germans to TWO or maybe ONE max.

[Arup]

I have just the emergency thing you need @real_tabasco_sauce

[Arup]

WITNESS: IMMORTAL HEALERS

 

settings: mauryan ally, athenian ally with hippocrates made, german me with all temple upgrades (not hard to do if u have mauryan ally) REMOVES THE HEALER CHAMP METAL COST AND TRAINING TIME BY HALF. YOU CAN CAPTURE A CC WITH JUST 30-40 HEALERS AND THEY WILL BE IMMORTAL AS F! IMAGINE THIS WITH A BRITONIC ALLY TOO (-20% HEALER COST) ITS BROKEN AF

They did not die to 40 spear cav, or 30 sword cav (done separately) and they only lost 2-5 healers I think in both the tests. Even against Seleucid champion pikes they do not die and killed them with their AURA (lol)

credits to @diagonalo for helping me test with him

Edited 3 hours ago by Arup

[Arup]

 Ah yes, German Archer Training (without any archers)