tool or factor influences game wins

[guerringuerrin]

8 hours ago, alre said:

if you say autociv makes up for lacking game features, you could say the same for progui: it makes up for a faulty built-in autoqueue and for a particularly complicated batch training system.

Besides, no one is saying progui is not an advantage, but every element on Seeh's list is.

Ok. Now we are repeating ourselves...

 

-In other moments of this discussion (in another thread) it has been argued that the macro to automatically investigate technology makes sense because "forgetting it is a minor detail" or because "maybe you clicked on it but you just ran out of resources".  

- it is very difficult to know what mods each player uses until that player does host a game, it is impossible to know if he himself does not communicate it.  I recently found out that LuchoMat/CryptoCamelius uses proGUI.  I play with him every day and I found out about it by chance because someone else said so.

-this is an ongoing discussion. I am a regular host and I do not prohibit proGUI players from playing my games. I'm also not in favor of proGUI player harrasment. but I think it would also be good to not get so defensive and take something from what is said

-IMO this thread should be moved to Game Discussion. Bc it's not at all an off topic discussion

Edited September 7, 2023 by guerringuerrin

[guerringuerrin]

12 hours ago, roscany said:

What are the other functions of the autociv mod? I thought it only had to do with selecting civs before the game starts lol...

The most importants are hotkeys to build structures and some unit selections like, most wounded units, only cavalry and so on

[Atrik]

1 hour ago, guerringuerrin said:

The most importants are hotkeys to build structures and some unit selections like, most wounded units, only cavalry and so on

Yes, and reminder you can also customize selections hotkeys so it's extra op! Example If you like dogs to be selected with cav, and healer with infantry (in your config file):

hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Soldier|Siege|Dog)&!Ship = ""
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Soldier|Healer)&!(Ship|Cavalry|Dog) = "Alt+S"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.Cavalry = ""
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.Cavalry|Dog = "Alt+E"

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Atrik

[seeh]

6 minutes ago, Atrik said:

Example If you like dogs to be selected with cav, and healer with infantry:

hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Soldier|Siege|Dog)&!Ship = ""
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Soldier|Healer)&!(Ship|Cavalry|Dog) = "Alt+S"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.Cavalry = ""
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.Cavalry|Dog = "Alt+E"

yes or

 

hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(CivilCentre|Corral|Crannog) = "Ctrl+C"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Dock|Defense_tower|Dog)&!Ship = "Ctrl+D"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Dog|Elephant)&!Support&!Archer = "Alt+D"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Elephant&Support) = "Alt+N"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Farmstead|Forge|Fortress) = "Ctrl+F"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Archer|Elephant&Archer) = "Alt+A"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Archer|Infantry&Javelineer|Elephant&Archer|Infantry&Slinger) = "Alt+A"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Javelineer) = "Alt+J"
hotkey.autociv.session.entity.by.class.select.(Infantry&Pikeman|Spearman)&!Ship = "Alt+P"

https://github.com/sl5net/autocivP#compare-ihot-intuitive-hotkeys-optional-and-nihot-non-intuitive-hotkeys-optional

[Atrik]

6 minutes ago, seeh said:

https://github.com/sl5net/autocivP#compare-ihot-intuitive-hotkeys-optional-and-nihot-non-intuitive-hotkeys-optional

Wow your doc is op! But I guess I'm not comfortable using more then my ~25 hotkeys , I'll mostly click on the gui like a noob.

[Gurken Khan]

48 minutes ago, Atrik said:

Yes, and reminder you can also customize selections hotkeys so it's extra op! Example If you like dogs to be selected with cav, and healer with infantry (in your config file):

I use the standard hotkeys and if I want to add certain units to a group I select & add them. ^^

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@guerringuerrin it seems he switched his account to CryptoCamelius for the purpose of trying out progui. I don't think he was using it before, but he had expressed interest.

[seeh]

7 hours ago, Atrik said:

Wow your doc is op! But I guess I'm not comfortable using more then my ~25 hotkeys , I'll mostly click on the gui like a noob.

i also do this. i guess i most of time use mouse. and the hotkey i use sometimes. a bit compromise. nice that i don't need to learn them. because is intuitive. you could learn all in ~5 seconds. i guess i cannot learn all your hotkeys settings in 5 seconds? idk. idk your hogkey settings

Edited September 7, 2023 by seeh

[seeh]

On 06/09/2023 at 6:19 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I think players are just enjoying it because it is making it easier for them to win against people without the mod.

I don't know. In any case, that doesn't apply to me. and I had previous games (years ago) where I was just as good. I first played as follows and as a child I was a football manager (and didn't control any football players). And I'm pretty sure some here thinks the same way. There are certainly both. I once described here what it otherwise feels like (a little bit) for me:  https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/106491-progui/?do=findComment&comment=556313

Edited September 13, 2023 by seeh

[borg-]

Borg- tool = brain

95% improvement in performance (winrate).

The other 5% is probably because I'm sleepy or tired.

EAE?

Edited September 13, 2023 by borg-

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, borg- said:

Borg- tool = brain

95% improvement in performance (winrate).

The other 5% is probably because I'm sleepy or tired.

EAE?

I thought it was your cybernetic implants! 

[ufa]

At what point does this stop being just people's differing opinions (flippant scapegoating for and over-exaggerated claims of "cheating" against) and solidify into some actual, official protocol surrounding where to draw the line on over-reaching mods? What drawing the line means, and what's considered over-reaching are themselves two things that need defining for that to happen. Is such a thing even possible given the current structure of 0AD/WFG/the small but vocal group of online players present in these discussions?

Regardless of where you fall with regards to 0AD I'd be really surprised if anyone here is of the opinion that "anything goes, with zero transparency" is the ideal position, so what's the path to an alternative? Beyond the scope of proGUI, there either probably already exist or could come to exist actual "cheat" mods, and there's nothing in place to do anything about them—despite all the furor that gets generated in these topics, in both directions.

Edit: I'm at 14.37% added performance given your chart @seeh, thanks for such precise and investigative science. Nice to see someone taking the game seriously for once around here.

Edited September 14, 2023 by ufa

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Rated games = no mods whatsoever, IMHO. How hard it would be to put the checks into place for this, I do not know. I do know the mod.json line that disables mod checking may be problematic. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, ufa said:

Edit: I'm at 14.37% added performance given your chart @seeh, thanks for such precise and investigative science. Nice to see someone taking the game seriously for once around here.

The chart isn't scientific in the least, and this entire thread was designed to bolster the proGUI mod.

[seeh]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The chart isn't scientific in the least, and this entire thread was designed to bolster the proGUI mod.

Firstly, it says several times that in can only approximate, very rough estimates  and secondly, it's about an expanded perspective. You would have noticed that in articles from me in 2021 and in the last personal message (which you have not read since a week - I tried talk to you personally about transparency). I didn't invent created this new mod,  but I always liked using it (and when is was always using it was visible to everyone, but I still hadn't played a rated game... -> transparent). but some articles that are much older are included here. If there is anything wrong with the article here, it should be corrected immediately (i have added your arguments also, didn't you see?).

[seeh]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Rated games = no mods whatsoever, IMHO. How hard it would be to put the checks into place for this, I do not know. I do know the mod.json line that disables mod checking may be problematic. 

btw e.g. valihrAnt is using autoCiv since long time and many op players do it