End of Yekaterina's lying (title was "End of Yekaterina")

[MarcusAureliu#s]

You cant leave out an opportunity to provoke can you ?

[alre]

what's Element? 

[Gurken Khan]

@alre

Quote

Element is a Matrix-based end-to-end encrypted messenger and secure collaboration app.

 

[seeh]

3 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

@alre

Quote

Element is a Matrix-based end-to-end encrypted messenger and secure collaboration app.

Pretty famous her around me. i use it as chat for everything, don't use WA or whatever else (yes this is bit off-topic. i not part of this discussion and i don't know the context. thanks to all moderators developers etc. here in 0ad to do best they can.
and another common wisdom (which everyone knows): the only ones who probably never make mistakes are probably those who never do anything. this corrects with the number of errors. that is normal.)

".... The result is that Germany’s healthcare ecosystem of more than 150,000 organisations will have a common real time communication system to match its specific needs, in just the same way that the Bundeswehr has its made-to-measure BwMessenger and the ÖV has BundesMessenger for its requirements. Yet, with all of these being Matrix-based, Germany’s healthcare organisations could easily federate with organisations in Germany’s public administration and armed forces.  ...." ( https://element.io/blog/bundesmessenger-is-a-milestone-in-germanys-ground-breaking-vision/ )

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by seeh

[Gurken Khan]

@seeh From the context it was clear for me that it is a messenger app of sorts; still found the additional info interesting.

Spoiler

What I find more perplexing is people posting questions like that; with four clicks I have search results for any term, probably quicker than typing a post.

 

[championcavalry]

Please see my topic, hopefully it bring your argument to a peaceful solution:

 

I have been playing with @Yekaterina for a long time, they used to be a nice player and helpful at contributing to developments. Some things happened and they gradually pushed her down the wrong path. We should look at what went wrong to prevent more Yekaterinas appearing.

I am not appealing for anyone, I think boths sides have made mistakes. Obviously Yekaterina shouldn't make so many smurf accounts, try spamming and encourage other people to do bad things. But I also think it's not appropriate for a moderator to contact Yekaterina on a platform outside WFG at late night, especially when he/she felt harassed by the messages.

If I understood correctly, there is a second set of "draft rules" that is  not displayed at the sign-up page. If the moderators are enforcing any rules they should make it very clear for everyone to see, so that nobody steps across a red line without knowing. It would help to pin the rules at registration page or a gaudy location on the homepage. If you just enforce things without telling people, they will think that you are misusing your powers just to please yourselves, hence there will be "dictator" accusations.

I do believe that the moderators are serving the best interest of 0ad but maybe some things should be made transparent or at least explained and some methods should be revised. When I read @Norse_Harold's post I get the impression that he fears Yekaterina's metamorphic identites and will try to stop him/her at all costs. I think this is a bit extreme, it will only provoke Yekaterina more and give him/her motivation to do more damage.

On the contrary, if you just ignore the likely smurfs, for example the most recent inzhu, they will most likely stay well-behaved because they don't want to get discovered. So there won't be any wave of chaos. I also played with inzhu and they were well behaved in games, not toxic or spamming anything dangerous. On the forum this inzhu talks about multithreading, which is useful for 0ad. Had we kept inzhu, their expertise can be used to improvement of 0ad engine. Isn't this good for "restorative justice"? But after purging inzhu and disturbing Yeka at late night, Yeka is angry again and now we have chaos again. If you suspect inzhu is Yeka you can choose to kick him from your game and tell other hosts to do the same, but editing all of their forum account then provoking Yeka is too much and didn't have any positive effect.

Edited July 25, 2023 by championcavalry

[guerringuerrin]

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Edited July 28, 2023 by guerringuerrin

[ChronA]

Sometimes people make mistakes. We don't know what is going on in their offline lives. Sometimes people dealing with intense stressors IRL take out their frustrations and aggressions against innocent bystanders online. I'm not saying that is what's happening here (either with respect to Yeka's behavior or Norse's) but we should be open to the possibility.

In such cases, I think the best remedy is to not escalate the situation. Step away for a bit. Touch some grass and reflect. Hopefully deal with the underlying causes of your actions too.

Then if you want to rejoin the community, first apologize for past incidents, then explain the external circumstances that led you to chose conflict, and lay out how you plan to avoid falling into the same trap in the future. If the community accepts your apology that is great, if not then stop wasting your time with people who don't want your company. There are billions of people out there with no history of grudges with you. It's never too late to make a fresh start.

Also keep in mind that backsliding is always possible. After reconciling with the community try to find a support network, both inside and IRL, who will encourage you to stick to your resolutions and call you out swiftly if you start to regress. Most people will forgive you for mistakes the first time they happen, but not if they become a recurring cycle.
 

For reconciliation the community also needs to take a proactive stance in order to make it successful. We need to encourage both sides. We also need to remove systemic barriers to healthy re-engagement. In particular, having too strong a culture of enforcing personal privacy or tracking reputations can stop people from sharing the problems they are facing and asking for the help they need. We should consider whether that could be an issue here.

[Norse_Harold]

For the record, Yekaterina has been lying about what happened with Restorative Justice and our Element conversations. The accusations of moderator abuse are false, which is why the posts were hidden at first. Then a different moderator, who does not have awareness of the situation to determine who is telling the truth, un-hid the posts. That moderator did this without consulting any other WFG staff before, during or after that action.

That resembled a situation where two people were fighting for control of the steering wheel of a vehicle. That's a recipe for disaster, so someone needs to yield. I decided to stop posting in this thread for a while.

Yekaterina has claimed that only one type of evidence, and only one piece of it, was used to justify banning NitroVicky and inzhu. This is false. The evidence that NitroVicky and inzhu were duplicates of Yekaterina was a lot more than one type or piece of evidence, and it was checked out by the other WFG staff. Banning NitroVicky and inzhu were not mistakes.

Mistakes, let's see. I made a mistake by believing that Yekaterina was a real friend and was making progress toward stopping the misconduct. Apparently it was just "calm before the storm" or a reconnaissance period by Yekaterina to try to learn how we detected that it was Yekaterina, or an accomplice of Yekaterina, who did the lobby spamming and other misconduct, how we detected Yekaterina's alternate accounts, how much we knew about Yekaterina's capabilities and skills, etc. That evidence will remain sealed in order to protect our investigation capabilities, slow down or prevent Yekaterina's attempts to counter them, as well as to ensure privacy of perpetrators, investigators, and victims.

Yekaterina's accusations toward me are false. There are probably ways to demonstrate that without revealing the evidence listed above. Anyone who wants to talk about it, please contact me via forum PM or IRC, and we can have a polite and reasonable discussion about it.

Yekaterina, even though you have betrayed me and spread false rumors about me, I continue to hold the door open to conflict resolution. I appreciate your positive contributions to the community like writing guides for newbies, being an OP player who does not swear or insult other players, creating abstractGUI mod and splitting its features into smaller mods based on public demand (part of restitution work for RJ), creating a campaign teaching players booming skills which is still a work in progress (also part of restitution work), developing improved AI, bringing friends into the game and development work, and having our interesting and informative personal conversations since April, 2023. You can come back to Element and talk to me. I will be more cautious when talking to you, but I will (continue to) not be abusive. Restorative Justice remains optional, and will, as always, only be done on a voluntary basis for both parties in each case (both Yekaterina and WFG, both weirdJokes and Yekaterina, both sanafur and Yekaterina). The alternative is to "sit out" the ban for its duration. But, realize that the duration is based on your behavior, not a set duration. Restorative Justice would hopefully speed up that process, so it's a win-win for you and for WFG, as well as the 0ad player base.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Norse_Harold