Healer Behavior

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Edited March 29, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[hyperion]

Assuming healers have large vision range would this not mean making healing ranged units rather tricky?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, hyperion said:

Assuming healers have large vision range would this not mean making healing ranged units rather tricky?

Currently, making healers heal melee units (the class of units who need it the most) is rather tricky. Since Healers are ranged units, they are more likely to be closer to other ranged units (archers et al.) and will prioritize those units over farther units. If we have PreferredClasses =Melee, then they will prioritize the melee units and then heal whichever are closer (the nearby ranged units). The effect will be subtle to the eye, but positively effect melee units greatly. Keep in mind, you can always place the Healers behind the archer line to make it more likely to heal ranged units instead.

[chrstgtr]

 

24 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The effect will . . .  positively effect melee units greatly

What basis do you have for this? One of the problems is that fights are spam based now--melee go to the center to die and as a result melee units don't live for a long time. And melee units that need healing are those that are already targeted by enemy (i.e., units that need healing are already scheduled to die soon).

Just not sure that an incremental 10h or whatever to a front line melee unit will actually extend their life. Happy to hear that you've tested and proven me wrong, thouhg

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

 

What basis do you have for this? One of the problems is that fights are spam based now--melee go to the center to die and as a result melee units don't live for a long time. And melee units that need healing are those that are already targeted by enemy (i.e., units that need healing are already scheduled to die soon).

Just not sure that an incremental 10h or whatever to a front line melee unit will actually extend their life. Happy to hear that you've tested and proven me wrong, thouhg

Surely, any healing great or small will extend life. Dunno what you're upset about. lol

[Gurken Khan]

I'd prefer if healers prioritized "wounded" units. (Like those you can grab with the o hotkey.)

[chrstgtr]

1 minute ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Surely, any healing great or small will extend life. 

This isn't mathematically true.

For example, if a unit has 100 health and gets healed at a rate of 5 hp/s but gets damaged at a rate of -30 hp/s. After 4 seconds the unit will die with or without a healer.

I'm just asking why you say these things.

Just now, Gurken Khan said:

I'd prefer if healers prioritized "wounded" units. (Like those you can grab with the o hotkey.)

Good idea. 

[Stan`]

1 minute ago, Gurken Khan said:

I'd prefer if healers prioritized "wounded" units. (Like those you can grab with the o hotkey.)

That's already the case. They only look for those. 

Here I proposed toget the most injured of the prefered units. http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/6769#comment:1

[Gurken Khan]

4 minutes ago, Stan` said:

That's already the case. They only look for those. 

I'm surprised. To me it doesn't seem like it.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

43 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

For example, if a unit has 100 health and gets healed at a rate of 5 hp/s but gets damaged at a rate of -30 hp/s. After 4 seconds the unit will die with or without a healer.

 

If a healer heals at 1500 hp/s but the target gets damaged at a rate of -1 billion hp/s the unit will die in Planck Time regardless.

So, obviously we aren't talking about 1 healer desperately healing 1 melee soldier being focused-fired by a line of enemy archers. We are talking about multiple healers healing a line of melee units in the middle of a scrum. I'm not sure why you need an Excel spreadsheet of data to intuit that healers prioritizing melee units will be a net benefit to melee units. If healers aren't as impactful as they could be, then maybe something else could be done with their healing or other stats, but that doesn't mean that my proposal doesn't benefit melee units. 

 

36 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

I'm surprised. To me it doesn't seem like it.

They can't heal non-wounded units.

Edited March 28, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Gurken Khan]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

They can't heal non-wounded units.

They can heal the tiniest of scratches.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, Gurken Khan said:

They can heal the tiniest of scratches.

Papercuts!

[chrstgtr]

17 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I'm not sure why you need an Excel spreadsheet of data to intuit that healers prioritizing melee units will be a net benefit to melee units.

Because I very quickly and easily showed you why this doesn't have to be the case. You can't just disregard math and practical function of units. We also know from actual experience that healing heroes are some of the least impactful units in actual fights, especially on melee units.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Overkill is a thing, yes. However, in many fights you see 1/2 or 1/3 health melee units alive for enough time to make a difference, especially if the armies are spread out horizontally. Healing melee units is inherently more valuable than healing ranged units due to them having more armor, which means each hitpoint healed is harder to remove from a pikeman than it would be on a skirmisher. 

Healing heros are fantastic in the following cases:

1. sniping
2. building arrows

I don't think I would like an automated behavior for healing, but maybe the ability to set them to closely follow a unit of my choosing.

[Lion.Kanzen]

It would be nice to have several ways to heal the unit.

 

Several shortcuts and mechanical functions that are specific to the healer.

 

For example, what would be the Attack move should be used to heal something like "heal move".

 

That for example a shortcut preferably for cavalry, another shortcut for infantry, another shortcut for certain units and so on.

[Gurken Khan]

Just thought about this: the first units I'd want my healers to heal are other healers.

[chrstgtr]

24 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I don't think I would like an automated behavior for healing, but maybe the ability to set them to closely follow a unit of my choosing.

Agree.

I generally prefer healing range during fights because they’re easier to level up. 
 

Generally prefer healing melee in between fights. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

[Lion.Kanzen]

I prefer to make a rearguard with a temple and defenses.

 

But it's not a bad idea, the only thing that might be difficult is taking care of those units, I always lose sight of them.

2 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Just thought about this: the first units I'd want my healers to heal are other healers.

This is good one.

[Stan`]

 

 

6 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Overkill is a thing, yes. However, in many fights you see 1/2 or 1/3 health melee units alive for enough time to make a difference, especially if the armies are spread out horizontally. Healing melee units is inherently more valuable than healing ranged units due to them having more armor, which means each hitpoint healed is harder to remove from a pikeman than it would be on a skirmisher. 

Healing heros are fantastic in the following cases:

1. sniping
2. building arrows

I don't think I would like an automated behavior for healing, but maybe the ability to set them to closely follow a unit of my choosing.

Mmmh isn't that what guarding is for ?

[Gurken Khan]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone Thank you for your constructiveness.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone Thank you for your constructiveness.

Years of endless fighting over trivia will do that.

I realized I'm doing this all wrong. Why post my ideas and requests here in the forum for endless debate when the real work happens on Trac and Phab? At the end of the day I just want the ability to add a preferred class to healing; I don't really care if the base game does it. That unpleasantness is up to other people anyway.

Edited March 29, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

9 hours ago, Stan` said:

 

 

Mmmh isn't that what guarding is for ?

Last time I tried guard, they would still run away when hit and follow too far behind the unit. I guess I haven’t tried it recently since healing isn’t that great overall.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

20 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Last time I tried guard, they would still run away when hit and follow too far behind the unit. I guess I haven’t tried it recently since healing isn’t that great overall.

I believe that was a bug and was fixed.