Yekaterina Posted March 5, 2023 Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 Dear all: The hero units, especially cavalry units, have thousands of health, top tier armour and insane attack values. They are absurdly strong as individuals, quite undying. Many people use the hero to distract large armies and absorb huge amounts of damage, while others can plunder a whole base with a single hero unit. I think we should decrease the stats of heroes themselves to maybe slightly stronger than a champion, or even unable to attack, such that we have to work on protecting the hero (makes more sense to protect the important people in a society) instead of using them as a meatshield. Let me know what you think 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted March 5, 2023 Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 A hero unit should not be as fat as a boss from an online RPG. Spoiler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 5, 2023 Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, Akira Kurosawa said: A hero unit should not be as fat as a boss from an online RPG. Reveal hidden contents Fat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 5, 2023 Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) I don't see any problem. Its resistance is supposed to be due to many abstractions.. The same can be said for elite soldiers. Edited March 5, 2023 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted March 5, 2023 Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: Fat? This means a lot of HP. Spoiler Edited March 5, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 9 hours ago, Helicity said: instead of using them as a meatshield Heroes have already been nerfed since A23. Back then, Roman heroes had 2000 health and the elephant hero had 2400 or 3000 health. I want to hero dance so I'm against nerfing them too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted March 5, 2023 Report Share Posted March 5, 2023 If you independently target units, you can avoid being distracted by heroes. In other situations killing the hero is extremely valuable. Hero raids in your base is just something you need to notice. Another thing that helps thwart hero raids is loom which prevents hero from killing women in 1 hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 05/03/2023 at 5:18 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said: something you need to notice And this is linked to another thread that I started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 05/03/2023 at 8:46 AM, Lion.Kanzen said: Its resistance is supposed to be due to many abstractions.. Please explain. I can't understand why a single cavalry hero unit is as strong as 5 champion units. If he is slightly stronger, that's possible; we have some exceptional people, but equivalent of 5 is just absurd. The champion units are appropriately strong in my opinion. A reasonable set of stats for champion sword cavalry should be 400 health Same speed and turn rate as other cavalry units 1 more armour and 1 more attack than the champion sword cavalry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 6, 2023 Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Helicity said: equivalent of 5 is just absur 5 is nothing. Why are you going to make such a rare unit, so weak? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted March 6, 2023 Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: 5 is nothing. Why are you going to make such a rare unit, so weak? Red Alert 3 did not have this problem. The hero was more vulnerable, you just had to protect him better. Why not just copy the working model? Spoiler Spoiler Edited March 6, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: so weak? So that it's more important to protect that unit rather than suicide it? You are training a hero for its bonuses, not for meatshielding. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 6, 2023 Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Akira Kurosawa said: Red Alert 3 did not have this problem. The hero was more vulnerable, you just had to protect him better. Why not just copy the working model? Reveal hidden contents Reveal hidden contents different approach.I honestly don't see the problem. Red alert is based in ancient world? Edited March 6, 2023 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sternstaub Posted March 6, 2023 Report Share Posted March 6, 2023 It would be possible to reduce health and give base health regeneration so that the unit only dies when focused. But that is not really an realistic approach. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIEND Posted March 7, 2023 Report Share Posted March 7, 2023 Hero units don't need to be more powerful than champion units of the same kind, because the role of hero units should be to provide some buffs as leaders, not to exert individual prowess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted March 7, 2023 Report Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: different approach.I honestly don't see the problem. Red alert is based in ancient world? Based on how many arrows it takes to kill a hero, 0 A.D. - the same fantasy as Red Alert 3. Spoiler Edited March 7, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2023 You don't want close range heroes like Scipio to die too quickly Also some heroes don't have bonuses so they are used as meatshields. You can have bonud heroes and meatshield heroes, separate. For good measure, let elephant heroes be meatshields and cav heroes be fragile. Agis gets 1500 health please 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted March 7, 2023 Report Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, AIEND said: Hero units don't need to be more powerful than champion units of the same kind, because the role of hero units should be to provide some buffs as leaders, not to exert individual prowess. Right, for attack I agree. Maybe only +20% attack over champ, not much more. But regardless, you still want heroes to have great health or armor (either one) so that you have time to utilize their bonuses or auras. Due to the nature of focus-fire in the game it would be too easy to snipe heroes otherwise. Edited March 7, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted March 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2023 37 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Due to the nature of focus-fire in the game it would be too easy to snipe heroes otherwise. This is a valid point, so for heroes that have short range attack bonuses, they should get better armour. However, we can also increase the range of aura to beyond the reach of enemy ranged units. We can also add techs that work on improving the hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LienRag Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 07/03/2023 at 12:55 AM, AIEND said: Hero units don't need to be more powerful than champion units of the same kind, because the role of hero units should be to provide some buffs as leaders, not to exert individual prowess. Ever heard of Alexander and Gaugameles ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LienRag Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 06/03/2023 at 5:47 PM, Yekaterina said: Please explain. I can't understand why a single cavalry hero unit is as strong as 5 champion units. I guess because the personal guard of a leader is usually 20-50 people strong ? Each of them elite, BTW. (au doigt mouillé, as we say in France) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 It is a video game that in many parts are abstractions. For example investing a little bit of meat does not make babies. The units are already born adults. . Final all that the game has are attractions to be able to have fun. Where the game is based on AoE quite a lot. Which means that it is based on Warcraft and civilization. Warcraft and Age of Empire the heroes are extremely powerful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LienRag Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 On 25/01/2024 at 9:25 AM, Lion.Kanzen said: For example investing a little bit of meat does not make babies. Well, that depends where exactly you invest your little bit of meat... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 3 hours ago, LienRag said: Well, that depends where exactly you invest your little bit of meat... I mean animal meat, No human sausage. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 12 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: I mean animal meat, No human sausage. Lol. It reminds me of a reprehensible (but funny) advertisement for the national women's day in my country. It said: we will give you sausage on women's day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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