Belisarivs

There is one big problem. First of all, it would be best if you created your jabber account (use some client from those I already suggested) and then we should discuss this: How level development (0AD style) and periods (Total War style) works. Have a look at this. Dev level simply means, that in lower stages you have some units available and with higher levels you gain access to new upgrades and units. This works fine in AoK and perhaps in 0AD, too. However, there is problem with fact, that our mod covers quite long period of time during which warfare underwent evolution at faster pace and not always towards improvements. That is why it won't work well in our mod. There it goes against realism a lot. See that problem with Thegn/Huscarle to Norman infantry upgrade. In history it happened. But Norman infantry provided rather supporting role and it was heavy cavalry which provided main striking force. That upgrade simply meant downgrade rather than upgrade as Huscarles were superior in fighting skill to Norman infantry a lot. We must discuss this further via IM and post our decision here. until that any research of nations is useless. Simply, should we use dev level? Then most barbaric units won't fit there because they were strong ingeed and much of such upgrades will be more often considered as dowgrades. I had a look at your unit list. Cool work. I like it. Could you please create that jabber account? It is quite simple. Download some client. Then add new account. Select jabber. Type your JID. It consists of your_nick@your_server.domain - it looks like e-mail address. your_nick - select at will your_server.domain - find server which provides jabber in Brazil (it is bes for lowest latencies), but if you fail, you can use jabber.org There usually is no need to register your account, you'll be registered automatically. Just search some servers which provide jabber account in Brazil first. I'd do it for you, but I don't speak Portuguese so I can't help. But it is easy. I've fond some links for you. But don't blame me if these contain trash. I don't understand it at all and just guess that these are in Portuguese and could be useful. http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabber - this seems to be best http://www.freelists.org/archives/jabber-b...5/msg00049.html http://guj.codigolivre.org.br/wiki/?q=node/feed BTW, how much does Brazilian Portuguese differ from original?

Well, I don't have such deep knowledge about units of Iberian peninsula. Just want to point out, that it would be better to not to make nations have all types of units if these didn't have them. I mean, it would be cool to make nations as they really were. With own real advantages and disadvantages. About those Jinetes. If these nations really used them in considerable numbers, than they should have them. Those Languedoc Swordsmen (infantry) and Asturian footmen (spearmen) are just influence of modification for Medieval - Total War named Medmod.

About Spanish. I'd rename Christian knight to Knight of Calatrava or Bellatore. Some Languedoc Swordsmen and Asturian footmen won't hurt, too.

I wanted to make English in first period almost heavy infantry only (perhaps they shouldn't have archers at all, as they only rarely used them, but javelinman should be used). In next period they would rely almost entirely on knights. Last period would represent English experience from wars with Scotland where dismounted knights and infantry form solid line and protection of Archers and knights perform flanking attacks but are no longer core of the army. This is rather rare in Western Europe to have army which consists of balanced troop types. Well, I think, that Spanish and perhaps Portuguese didn't have such balanced army and relied more on Cavalry. That is what I'd like to see in our mod. Civs with strengths and weaknesses. To reflect historical accuracy rather than balance of troops. Am I right? Is that possible.

I'm thinking about that unit x disappears Perhaps solution by upgrade is better one. Because Norman infantry didn't fight alongside Housecarles. But there will be problem for example with that Housecarle -> Norman infantry upgrade. In fact, it would be rather downgrade as Housecarles were considered best infantry of that time. That was what I wanted to point out. Unit lists are fine. Could you give brief description of units with less common name. I don't know them much. I understand names of Spanish ones (as these aren't as native), but some of Portuguese are unknown to me.

Yeah. I did it. You are reading my thoughts. I wanted to do it to but forgot. I'm not much into it. Perhaps we could simply rename Saxon Axeman into Thegn, or so. Because 1st period (or dev level) is the Saxon and next is Norman. Saxons didn't fight alongside Normans. Simply, Norman conquest meant disappearance of Saxon style of warfare. Also Housecarles were the wery elite soldiers able to hold line against any melee unit pretty well (their axes killed three or four horses under William at Hastings). And let's not forget, that after Hastings they fled from England and joined Byzantine Varangian Guard which were strong indeed. Yeah. I thought about it, too. Good point. So, what do you think now?

Well, I don't see much difference between periods and 0AD system. Simply, units of more age would respond to appropriate devel level of city ... Ages simply do not have to respond to certain time period but rather represent development level each nation currently is in. We must also count with fact, that there is certain possibility of Total War style implemented in Part II or so. So let's count with it. How many of periods/devel levels will be available 3 or 4? I guess 4. So there is my list of ideas (just names and basic descriptions). level one: Javelinman Fyrd - basic soldier with spear, nothing unique Archer - name suggests all Saxon Axeman Scout Cavalry level two: Saxon Axeman disappears Norman infantry appears Fyrd -> Medium Spearman Archer -> Longbowman Light Cavalry appears Norman Knight appears Javelinman disappears Billman appears level three: Light Cavalry -> Hobelar Norman Knight -> Royal Knight Longbowman -> Yeoman Norman infantry -> Dismounted Knight Billman -> Heavy Billman What do you think?

Do you use Miranda IM? You can use jabber in it. Or see this http://www.jabber.org/user/userguide/ As I said, do any nation you want. We could discuss them unit by unit. Choose one nation, than suggest some units, how they work, look and how important they are and then someone can comment your idea (not only me, but I don't think, that someone else will join discussion).

Fine then. That wiki is good start. Perhaps some book in your native language would be better for you if there is some. Keep in mind that Blender develops in pretty pace. Differences between version 2.42 and planned 2.43 are great. So, try to buy some newer book. About those factions, I don't know. Choose any nation you wish and know well. They were already specified there. Each faction should have ~3 cav units, 2-3 infantry, some siege and some archery (and 1 or 2 upgrades for each of them). Navy won't hurt, too. But make it civ specific. I mean, Aztecs wouldn't have cavalry while Turkish specialize in cavalry and so. Just don't make those civs identical. I think, that AoK model could be representative well but with bigger differences between nations. If I could ask you to create that jabber account and contact me (my JID is in my signature) so wa can discuss it further at weekend.

As I said several times, you don't have to. If you wish, you can send me mail so I can send you back models and textures I've made. Then just edit those textures by painting program and follow steps in that texture contest - Klibanophoros. But if you wish, I'd suggest http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page

I didn't say, that Portuguese, Spanish and French used absolutely same units. I said, that composition of their armies were very close. I forgot to mention pikemen, but that doesn't matter. Simply, we can use units French units, mod them slightly and we will have any western style army. That is my point.

Well, Swiss had quite a lot of common military units with rest of Western Europe. in fact, that is an advantage. We don't have to do so many new units. In fact, whole western Europe had common style of armies with few differences. Have a look at Spanish, Portuguese or French. Core was Heavy cavalry, some supporting light cavalry, archers and xbowmen. I don't say, that they were the same, as they weren't but simply differences weren't as big as someone could think. And Mongols should be definitely in the game. They are most successful conquerors and their military style was great. Wallachians could be there. But don't discuss this now. Time will show if we are able to create any nation or thirty.

Well, I wouldn't include Wallachians. These had only little influence and importance. Mongols aren't problem for me and Swiss could be done, too. But for now lets concentrate on basic models as research can be done quite quickly. You also don't have to do any modeling. Could you try to do some textures? I've done another models of horses, so if you wish, you can try to do textures for them instead (write me mail so I can send them to you). Some painting tool should be enough (GIMP, Photoshop ....). Just follow the steps described in texture contest with Klibanophoros, them. Now I have to do several exams and will be somewhat less active. Don't plan to abandon the project, though. I also plan to perform significant PC upgrade if things go fine. AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (socket AM2) BOX 512 DDR2 (I'll add another RAM later) Asus M2V - VIA K8T890 Gainward 8019-Bliss 7600GS 256MB, PCI-E DVDRW Pioneer DVR-111D 8x8x16x16x bulk ~400$ Regards

Hm, Hungaria wasn't obscure at all. We can use that city phase model. In fact I don't see any difference between that model and AoK style except the way new era is achieved. So, organise those units to four phases and it will be possible to regard also as Ages in AoK. We must also count with possibility, that there will be Total War style implemented into the game in part 2. BTW, what about your Blender? In fact, it is modelling and especially texturing what causes me pain in head. History research could be done quite quickly, but modelling and texturing? Ouch.

Those strenghts and weaknesses were meant about civs. Shame is, that there is almost none participating and thus there is no brainstorming about civs and ideas. In fact, I don't know unit and tech tree in 0AD. But we could do something like AoK. Simply, there will be three periods - Early, High and Late (and perhaps Dark, too). And in each one of them will be different set of units. Some units can exst only in one period and some can be in all periods. Nice pics. I especially like those bigger ones which describe units look better than those from totalwar.org. Also those painted pics from that Turn-Based Strategy game were quite nice. I liked them.

But I agree with him. Sorry, but AoM except 3d graphics adds nothing. I played whole campaign and that was great. But that is all. AoM simply looked as if engines did it, not people who enjoyed it. If I had to choose between AoK and AoM, I'd throw the latter one away without any hesitation.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about 0AD tech tree and so. I wrote it badly. I mean I wanted more examples for one unit. If you post pic of, for example, English knight, it is viable to post not just one but more of same type so I can paint its texture appropriately. For example: English knight with trappings and two, three or more pics for same model (so I can keep models and just change textures). Also some search about strengths and weaknesses is good idea. I have some knowledge about main civs but you could find some interesting things about some minor civs and others. I guess, that you are Portuguese or Brazilian (if I'm wrong, sorry) so, you could find some ideas about Portuguese, Spanish and Moors. Also Inca and Aztecs or Maya would be welcomed (but don't plan to introduce more indians, these should be enough as I guess, that other tribes didn't differ as much). Just simply avoid searching informations about civs you don't know much (as I can do research, too) and search infos about those you know more. I'd like to have less but more confidential informations. That is all. Thank you for your work.

Yeah. It is viable. There is need for better organization of those civs. But I'd wait and prefer to cooperate. Instead try to find more information about fewer nations but with more accuracy. There is no problem with CrazyThumbs model. It is just minor tweak. Every model must come with balance between low numbers of faces (polygons) and accuracy. Every graphic card can achieve limited number of polygons per second. So If you create high poly model and graphic card has to display battle between hundreds of such models at same time, it will terribly hurt performance. Therefore we need to limit number of polys and yet maintain good look and feel. I'll simply try to reduce number of polys and keep look and feel about same. For example by flattening shield (I counted 14 polygons in it) and reducing it to just 3 polygons will save performance and keep look and feel as player won't see the difference. It won't be much, but in battles with higher numbers of such soldiers it could be significant. CrazyThumbs model is really good. And I'm glad that he did it. Really.

You don't like AoK graphics? I find it more detailed and nice than that of AoM ....

Fine. Could you send be that model, please? I'll try to reduce its faces. Abadu: I've read, that Blender stores its config in .B.blend file in .blender folder. Delete it and start new project and all should be fine then.

Well, perhaps you could even hasten the process by copying and pasting that error message. Saying "It doesn't work" isn't good bugreport.

Welcome. Best place for introduction is, well Introductions forum. For technical questions is best Computed Desk and 0 A.D. General & Ideas Discussion forum. If you want, you can participate in creation of some mods. Especially those skilled with painting tools (GIMP, Photoshop ...) are welcomed, but others can participate as well. Enjoy your stay here.

May I ask how did you mean this? You don't like my model? I have made another models of horse. One with trappings and one with the gothic mail. I also started to create horseman for them. Where should I upload them together with unwrapped texture? It has size about 40 kB. Nice Voynik. How many faces does it have? Keep them low. Model of horse I've made has below 300.

Right you are. But I think, that this will be fairly easy compared to texture creation. Hm, lets hope that same won't happen to us. Just do units at will. Specifications were already stated. There is also texture contest you may take part in if you wish. None participates here, its so demotivating.

Have a look. More such contests are up to come. http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10557 There is no need for skill in Blender as I can handle 3d modeling for now. But help of someone skilled in 2d painting (GIMP, Photoshop ....) is welcomed.