Genava55

Care to add a description?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_wedge

Seems to have been a modern legend: https://web.archive.org/web/20160304023218/http://www.sparta.markoulakispublications.org.uk/index.php?id=133

Interesting. Why?

Carthage deserves a rework, based on sources that are a little more researched than the usual superficial summaries. I don't really understand what the Numidians are doing in the civic center. These were not Carthaginian citizens, but allied troops - in other words, auxiliaries - who fought for Carthage under political agreements. Several Numidian peoples were direct clients of Carthage, so I can see why they're part of the standard roster. But not in the civic center. Slightly problematic are the Libyan lancers, who aren't necessarily at their best in the civic center. Carthage may have massively recruited Libyans into its armies, but the status of citizens for these troops was not systematic. In fact, Carthage mainly enlisted peasants from subjugated states. These peasants also worked in the fields of Carthaginian estates. Their status as peasants argues for integration into the civic center, but their status as foreign citizens argues for the opposite. I find that it also lacks mention of Libyphoenicians. They made up an important part of the Carthaginian troops and were Phoenician citizens in the other North African colonies. Libyphoenicians were known for their cavalry. In this case they could be recruited in the civic center.

What is "full hash" in this context? The control of all values in the simulation?

Warring states China would be nice too.

For the moment, they are the only representatives of these peoples. But potentially, we could have several representatives of certain civilizations. I am thinking in particular of the Romans, the Persians and the Chinese.

Yeah it's lame. Although it is easy to see and identify. Is this a feature that is existing but not used, or would we have to implement it in javascript ? Age of Mythology is in a simpler situation, the game is less realistic. We couldn't have such spectacular changes. But it would still be interesting.

Thebes and the Boeotian League, from Britannica: Boeotia and Boeotian Confederacy, free article on the Oxford Classical Dictionary: Other sources on their history: Boeotia, on Livius: https://www.livius.org/articles/place/boeotia/ Thebes and Boeotia in the Fourth Century B.C. by S. C. Bakhuizen, on JSTOR : https://www.jstor.org/stable/1192571 Subdivisions of the Boeotian Confederacy after 379 BC by J. Rzepka, on academia: https://www.academia.edu/download/61549003/Rzepka_Subdivisions_of_Boeotian_Confederacy.pdf The military policy of the Hellenistic Boiotian League by Ruben Post, on McGill University: https://escholarship.mcgill.ca/concern/theses/z316q5029 Thebes, the Boeotian League, and central Greece: political and military development and interaction in the fourth century BC by M.S. Furman, on St Andrews university: https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/12254 A history of Boeotia by R.J. Buck, a 220 pages book. The flamethrower of the Boeotians (5th c. B.C.) It was the first flamethrower in history and was first used by the Boeotians in the Peloponnesian War for the burning of the Dilion/Delium walls. It consisted of a scooped out iron-bound beam (ripped at length and reconnected) that had a bellow at the user’s end and a cauldron hung from chains at the other end. A bent pipe from the airtight orifice of the beam went down into the cauldron which contained lit coal, sulphur and pitch (tar). With the operation of the bellow, enormous flames were created that burned the wooden walls and removed their defenders. Later it was used for the offence of stone fortifications causing cracks in the stones because of the high temperature and the parallel infusion of vinegar, urine or other erosive substances in them. Thucydides, 4, 100: [1] The Boeotians presently sent for darters and slingers from [the towns on] the Melian gulf; and with these, and with two thousand men of arms of Corinth, and with the Peloponnesian garrison that was put out of Nisaea, and with the Megareans, all which arrived after the battle, they marched forthwith to Delium and assaulted the wall. And when they had attempted the same many other ways, at length they brought to it an engine, wherewith they also took it, made in this manner: [2] Having slit in two a great mast, they made hollow both the sides, and curiously set them together again in the form of a pipe. At the end of it in chains they hung a cauldron; and into the cauldron from the end of the mast they conveyed a snout of iron, having with iron also armed a great part of the rest of the wood. [3] They carried it to the wall, being far off, in carts, to that part where it was most made up with the matter of the vineyard and with wood. [4] And when it was to, they applied a pair of great bellows to the end next themselves, and blew. The blast, passing narrowly through into the cauldron, in which were coals of fire, brimstone, and pitch, raised an exceeding great flame, and set the wall on fire, so that no man being able to stand any longer on it, but abandoning the same and betaking themselves to flight, the wall was by that means taken. [5] Of the defendants, some were slain and two hundred taken prisoners; the rest of the number recovered their galleys and got home. More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Delium https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeotian_flame_thrower,_5th_century_BC,_Greece_(model).jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeotian_Flamethrower.png The Boeotian League is also known to have implemented military reform during the Hellenistic period. One of the source supporting this is the Great Stele of Thespiai, from which there are mentions of peltophorai (phalangites), an Agema (elite troops unit inspired from the Macedonian army), epilektoi (elite troops, either hoplite like or peltast like), pharetritai (archers), sphendonatai (slingers). In addition we need to add thyreaphoroi/thureophoroi and traditional hoplitai who are mentioned in other sources. It is also very important to highlight how the Boeotian League and Thebes implemented a lot of training for their troops, from their confrontation with Sparta which also inspired them and their imitation of Athens which developed the Ephebeia. The institutions of Ephebeia and Gymnastikós (gymnastics) were promoted, amplified and strengthened. Xenophon tells us that “all Boiotians exercised under arms” and Plutarch that the Boiotians became famous for “the attention they paid to exercise”. Diodorus also said, when Alexander the Great’s Makedonian troops attacked the Thebans during their revolt in 335, they were still “superior in bodily strength on account of their constant training in the gymnasium”. Boiotians seem to have been more successful than Athens in making the Ephebeia mandatory. Not only do epheboi and neaniskoi train to fight in formation with a shield, they also train with a bow and javelin and in skirmishing techniques. The young men were assessed during a festival called Pamboiotia, which enabled the troops to demonstrate their individual and collective skills.

Awesome documentary about the Etruscans, check for subtitles and dubbed versions on Arte's website: https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/101362-000-A/les-etrusques-une-civilisation-mysterieuse-de-mediterranee/

https://www.youtube.com/@Alexus50105/shorts

Another name plausible is Teutones. The name the Germans gave themselves was probably something like this. *þeudō in proto-germanic would mean 'people' and its derivations as *þeudiskaz 'from the people' and *ϸeudanōz 'those from the people' would be close to the word Teutones. In Proto-Indo-European, *teutonōs would mean "one from the people". Deutsch derives from this. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/deutsch

Caesar said the Gauls called themselves Celts. The Celts was the first name reported in the literature, as Keltoi by the Greeks (Herodotus, Hecateus of Miletus, Aristotle). Only later the name Gauls (Galli in Latin and Galatai in Greek) have been popularized. But the Gauls called themselves Celts. We also know a few tribes in Iberia used the name Celtici. The Britons probably not. In fact all the so-called Celtic people of the British Isles and Ireland, never have been called Celts and never have called themselves Celts in their literature. It is a much later invention when scholars realized the links between the languages (Gaelic, Welsh, Gaulish etc.). And also the mention of druids in both sides. The modern use of the word Celtic is different from the meaning it had during the ancient times. The same for German and Germanic. Numerous tribes have been called Germanic, but not all. For example the Goths never have been called Germans or Germanic. We know they spoke a Germanic language, but it is a modern view. Not the view they had in the past. For the Romans, Gauls and Germans are mostly equivalent. The labels are used for a large contiguous population divided in different tribes but occuping approximately the same geographical region. Every outsider from a geographical point of view, like the Britons and the Goths, were not included in the groupings. In the first iterations of 0 A.D., they were grouped in a single Greek civ. The only reason they are not, is for the gameplay. There is enough material among Greek city-states and Hellenic kingdoms to make several civs with enough diversity. But the Iberian civ for example is a extreme case of mixing in 0 A.D., like a patch-work of several different cultures. Cimbri are documented, their wandering happened at least between 113-101 BC. Although there is not that much info on them, they are a known people. They are not the first Germanic population appearing in the historical records, this would be the Bastarnae/Skiri.

Germans would be the most consistent with the other civs.

The word "Germani" is first popularized by Caesar, he used it to group a large population under one label and he built a narrative with it. There is a debate among scholars to know if Caesar was really the original source, maybe Posidonius of Apameia was the actual original transmitter of the word. But there is no consensus. Furthermore, there is a plausible hypothesis where Posidonius transmitted the named "Germani" to specifically speak about a tribe, not a large group. Tacitus mentioned that the name was originally applied to the Tungri only, then it has been generalized to others. Maybe Tacitus was relying on Posidonius because Caesar doesn't mention the Tungri. Caesar mentions the Aduatuci, the Condrusi, the Eburones, the Caeraesi and the Paemani as being commonly named Germans. Which is interesting because the Tungri could be another name of the Aduatuci. Finally there is something interesting in relation to the Cimbri here: The Aduatuci are a remnant of the Cimbri and Teutones who tried to invade the Belgians and failed. This is explained by Caesar. So the descendants of the Cimbri and Teutones could have been called Germans a few decades after their wandering. Thus, the Romans did call a large population Germans. German is not a label the tribes used to call themselves, but so do is the name Gaul. The concern with the name Germans and its correspondence with present-day Germans dates back to the Second World War and the Nazis' use of the Germanic theme as an ideological justification. But at no point is anyone going to make the same criticism of the use of the name Greek for the ancient populations of Greece when the Greeks of today bear the same name. The same goes for the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Belgians etc. I don't see why today's Germans should have exclusive use of this name. What's more, the problem only exists with English, and the world does not revolve around Anglo-Saxon countries alone. ‘Deutsch’ in German. ‘Allemands’ in French. ‘Tedeschi’ in Italian. ‘Alemán’ in Spanish. For me, the only problem with the Cimbri is that they come into conflict with a future faction of the Germans and that they're a single, relatively unknown people. The concept seems interesting, although I haven't tried the faction out yet. If we rename the Cimbri as Germans, it is fine for me. Although it is a bit sad to reduce the Germans to a single tribe.

There is a blog article about it here: https://www.comitatus.net/greekbellybow.html Although it is not really related to the Macedonians but to the Greeks in general, it is a real ancient weapon. Edit: There is a plausible evidence for its use in Macedonia in the 2nd century BC: https://www.academia.edu/31610915/Perimortem_Weapon_Trauma_to_the_Thoracic_Vertebrae_of_a_2nd_Century_BC_Adult_Male_Skeleton_from_Central_Macedonia_Northern_Greece_2004_Death_from_a_catapulted_bolt_head_Journal_of_Paleopathology

2.pdf

@borg- I think you are the author of this change right? To be fair it is not worse than the Marian reform, which didn't exist but is a modern construction from the historiography. Maybe we can let this one pass, although we need to explicitly say in the encyclopedia he is not Athenian and it has been decided for the gameplay.

Is it happening when there is no battle formation as well?

The Zapotecs: Princes, Priests, and Peasants Although the Zapotecs have lost most of their cultural distinctiveness and undergone many changes, their way of life still displays links with a rich and fabled past. For more than three thousand years, the Zapotec-speaking peoples have occupied the fertile Valley of Oaxaca of southern Mexico – a region that was one of the earliest fully developed civilizations in America. There the Zapotec princely and priestly elites ruled a complex social and political organization, the theocratic state, and the Zapotec temple city of Monte Alban became one of the great cultural centers of Mesoamerica. The decline of the Zapotec civilization, and of Monte Alban as a civil and religious center, began before A.D. 900, with a shift toward divisive militarism, with the arrival of the Mixtecs in the thirteenth century and the rise of the Mixtec-Puebla culture, and with the invasion of the tribute-demanding Mexicas in the fifteenth century. The Zapotec princes’ elite status and most of the religious and political traditions ended. Finally, with the Spanish Conquest, when most of the Zapotecs and Mixtecs were reduced to rural, subject peasantry. This account of the Zapotecs and their worlds is what the author calls anthropological history. He draws on and integrates findings from archaeology, ethnology, ethnohistory, social anthropology, and other fields to reveal as fully as possible the worlds of the Zapotecs. The author, Joseph W. Whitecotton, was Associate Professor of Anthropology at the University of Oklahoma. Zapotec Civilization: How Urban Society Evolved A description of the work of Kent Flannery, Joyce Marcus and their colleagues in Mexico's Oaxaca Valley where the Zapotecs created one of the world's original civilizations. At its peak 1500 years ago, the Zapotec capital of Monte Alban - with its magnificent temples, tombs, ballcourts and hieroglyphic inscriptions - dominated a society of over 100,000 people with farflung territorial outposts. Yet a millennium earlier Monte Alban had been uninhabited and the valley's population less than one tenth its later size. The authors of the book go back to the beginnings of the settlement in Oaxaca 10,000 years ago to provide the answers to what caused this sudden cultural flowering. Ancient Zapotec Religion: An Ethnohistorical and Archaeological Perspective Ancient Zapotec Religion is the first comprehensive study of Zapotec religion as it existed in the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca on the eve of the Spanish Conquest. Author Michael Lind brings a new perspective, focusing not on underlying theological principles but on the material and spatial expressions of religious practice. Using sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Spanish colonial documents and archaeological findings related to the time period leading up to the Spanish Conquest, he presents new information on deities, ancestor worship and sacred bundles, the Zapotec cosmos, the priesthood, religious ceremonies and rituals, the nature of temples, the distinctive features of the sacred and solar calendars, and the religious significance of the murals of Mitla—the most sacred and holy center. He also shows how Zapotec religion served to integrate Zapotec city-state structure throughout the valley of Oaxaca, neighboring mountain regions, and the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Ancient Zapotec Religion is the first in-depth and interdisciplinary book on the Zapotecs and their religious practices and will be of great interest to archaeologists, epigraphers, historians, and specialists in Native American, Latin American, and religious studies. Zapotec: An Affectionate Portrait Of Southern Mexico And Its 3000 Year Old Culture This engrossing study of southern Mexico, an area fabulous for what it has already yielded to devoted archaeologists, haunting for what it has not yet revealed, centers about the Zapotec as the matrix of the Oaxaca peoples and builders of a glorious ancient culture. First we come to know the peoples of Oaxaca as they are today— the fifteen tribes, their fiestas and ways of life, their cities. Then we travel back in the vertical time of the Indians to trace the possible routes that led to the building of Monte Alban and other sites of ancient civilizations, surmise the reign of the Zapotec to its checking by the Aztec, to the acceptance of the Spaniards as deliverers from the Aztecs and allies against the Mixtecs, and see the consummation of the Zapotec heritage in the person of Benito Juarez, the great and progressive hero of Mexican unification. A fruitful approach to a fascinating research area, this achieves the vertical time of the Indians in showing the unity and change of past and present and gives the reader an insight into the theories research evokes and the facts it assures. Zapotec Monuments and Political History Of the four major hieroglyphic writing systems of ancient Mesoamerica, the Zapotec is widely considered one of the oldest and least studied. This volume assesses the origins and spread of Zapotec writing; the use and role of Zapotec writing in the politics of the region; and the decline of hieroglyphic writing in the Valley of Oaxaca. Lavishly illustrated with maps, photographs, and original artwork.