real_tabasco_sauce

you should always be confident that your units can move as expected, this is why a lot of AOE2 players dislike AOE3 and 4. In AOE3 if a unit gets hit, the whole formation (which the user is forced to use) goes into slow motion. I think we can solve this without having to add a new mechanic.

I believe it can be possible with the status effect feature (same feature as poison). @Freagarach @Stan` personally, I am not a fan. This was in AOE3 and I hated it. it doesn't seem as bad in AOE4, but still I would rather my units' motion be predictable and not dependent on gameplay factors.

right but it doesnt fix them being tankier, having more armor, and dealing more damage. I'd still say the HP branch is necessary, as well as a jav cav damage nerf: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...cavalry_health?from_project_id=36954588&straight=false

I would like to do a melee damage increase (also some armor adjustment) later on for meatshield meta purposes, but this isn't an appropriate change for the problem at hand. what could be done is increase the pierce damage of spearmen such that they damage ranged cav more (with 3 hack 1 pierce armor). spearmen also seem to be generally worse than swords, so I think this would be welcome.

One other option could be to lower the hack armor of ranged cavalry.

@chrstgtrI see what you are saying, and honestly, I agree, but I would like to maintain the mobility of cavalry as its primary advantage over infantry (instead of just being better in every aspect). If our only nerf is speed, and we leave damage at 18 for skirm cav, I think you will see even more players just simply using them as a replacement for skirmishers, which makes for poor gameplay. To avoid this, they should do the same damage as infantry.

hmm, just curious: why would you prefer a cavalry speed nerf over an infantry speed buff?

yes, so better to focus on individual components of the problem. ie Seems like everyone agrees to nerf skirm cav from 18 to 16 no?

ok i see, thanks for the feedback. From what I gather from you all: Archer and skirm cav damage should be nerfed to inf levels, but not the other cavalry. sounds good to me. Also seems like the infantry speed increase isn't favorable. the health nerf I have reduces champ melee cav heath as well ranged cav (both CS and champ) a little. ranged cav: 80 hp for CS, 180 for champ melee cav: 160 hp for CS (unchanged), 280 for champ For spearmen, their prepare time is currently 500ms for a repeat time of 1000ms. I could reduce prepare time some, 350ms maybe, perhaps I could reduce pikemen to 600ms. On acceleration, I could give melee infantry a bonus in acceleration, from 35 m/s^2 to 42 m/s^2. how does this sound? also, any thoughts on the following discrepancy?

ok, recall the discussion on cavalry nerf. There are three separate and independent nerfs considered: nerf cav damage, nerf cav HP, and increase infantry speed. As written so far, increasing infantry speed would be +0.5 m/s speed for the basic "unit" class. (skirmishers get a little more than 0.5 faster, pikemen get a little less than 0.5 faster). This is intended to close the mobility gap slightly. I am pretty confident in my HP branch which is: ranged cav: 80 hp for CS, 180 for champ melee cav: 160 hp for CS (unchanged), 280 for champ I have debated the best approach for a damage nerf, and I think the best approach is really to equalize the DPS for cavalry and their infantry counterparts. For ranged units, I would bring skirm cav and archer cav damage down to equal infantry values, and for melee units, I would raise infantry damage to equal their respective cavalry values. This is nice and dandy for everything except for 2 exceptions: pikemen (have no cav equivalent), so I already made a separate branch for pikemen which could be added independently: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...pikemen?from_project_id=36954588&straight=false Spearmen/Spearcav (see below) spearmen/spearcav: currently all cav have more damage than infantry except for 1 unit: spearcav: spearcav: 4h 3p per 1.25 sec = 3.2 hack, 2.4 pierce DPS spearmen: 3h 2.5p per 1.00 sec = 3.0 hack, 2.5 pierce DPS What I propose for these units is to use the margin of increase seen for inf swords (6.5/5.5) to increase spearmen DPS 3.0 hack, 2.5 pierce DPS * (6.5/5.5) ~= 3.5 hack, 3 pierce per 1.00 sec for spearmen keeping the same 1.25 sec repeat time for spearcav, their new hack and pierce values should be: 3.5 hack, 3 pierce per 1.00 sec *1.25 sec ~= 4.4 hack, 3.75 pierce for spear cavalry Of the three nerfs, which sounds like a welcome change? I could see all three working out fine, but maybe just 1 or 2 of them are agreeable to you all.

@ValihrAnt was able to strategically expand more easily here. It seemed very important to the win. I see CCs and colonies a little more in TGs. Even while CCs may not be added much more frequently, it makes the map feel larger, with territories not squished up next to each other. I guess it didn't really change the meta, just added flexibility.

I am thinking I could use something as simple as a campfire to symbolize scouting. Isn't there already a campfire someone made? I can't find it. @wowgetoffyourcellphone are you familiar with this one? Or maybe I am just crazy? @Lion.Kanzen any idea where this is? With that last piece, I could finalize the tooltips and descriptions and add them as a merge request to the community mod.

So I tried the repeat times change to see if there was an improvement on performance (200 archers vs 200 archers). It did not seem too impactful to be honest. (no detectable change in fps) However, this isn't really a simulation of 4v4 conditions, so maybe it could still help. Would you rather I keep the merge request for the repeat times up? Or should I take it down?

I would agree with this even in the absence of the healer/temple techs change tbh.

right, it's just the change has been live for 2 days and this complaint is not based on evidence from gameplay, instead just on assumptions. It will take some time for players to change their habits and try something new.

1. how are healers a throwaway unit? the idea is to keep them alive so that you may heal your army. 2. Metal is not a "rare" resource. If you mine it, you get it. 3. The overall cost is much cheaper. 4. Metal has a higher gather rate than farming in the late game.

There should be two costs for this unit, just 100 food makes the unit too conducive to spam. Remember that the previous cost was 250 food.

ok I went ahead and added some merge requests so you can all give thoughts. Here is the link: https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests

Oh, yes I can make a merge request for this. Thanks.

Changelop in writing: #This is a written changelog for additional merges to each version of the community mod. If you would like to review the exact details on each merge, visit this link: https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests?scope=all&state=merged -0.26.1- !1 Set up gitlab with continuous integration to the mod. -0.26.2- !2 Han farming technologies (village and city phase) fixed. !6 Regicide mode infinite loop from enabling hero garrison fixed. -0.26.3- !4 Move tier 3 blacksmith technologies to the town phase. !5 Healers cost 100 food 25 metal, cheaper temple technologies. !8 Themistocles now provides a wall discount as well as a naval buff, Pericles provides technology discount and soldiers in his aura do not give loot. !10 Civic centers and colonies decreased cost, decreased territory expansion with each age. !11 Axe cavalry buff to hack damage. !12 Change to ptol civ bonus: Ptolemies houses, storehouses, farmsteads +50% build time and -40% capture points. !13 Team Bonuses: Athens get CC technologies -30% cost, -50% research time, Seleucids get CC decreased build time too, Persians get cheaper barracks and stables, Carthage gets -50% mercenary infantry train time. Changelog file: community_mod_changelog.txt

https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...crossbow_nerf?from_project_id=36954588&straight=false Thoughts?

yes, that tech is a civ bonus, so it is an innate quality of the sparta civ. I think it makes sense as an economic limitation (especially considering their availability in p1). It also distinguishes Sparta from other civs' champion spearmen: very powerful unit, but especially early on, it inhibits the economy. I would be keen to merge this and also the unit_upgrades later, after balance changes. doubling cav pop cost seems problematic, however. I think most players would prefer a general cavalry nerf, involving their damage and health. I think what I will do for this is split up my cavalry nerf branch so that individual changes can be considered independently. (current branch -> damage change branch, health change branch, inf speed branch)

Oh, my mistake.

Would a better alternative be to add fire to the building destruction animation? Like some smoldering fires in the "rubble" after destruction?

This is @borg-'s patch made into a git branch. https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...sparta?from_project_id=36954588&straight=false I didn't include the "two kings" part because there were issues with regicide, and I also think 1 hero at a time should be held constant for all civs. Certainly some adjustments will need to be made, particularly costs of different units and technologies. The overall idea is to give the spartans a unique champion unit, one strongly tied to their culture. So for this reason they cost 2 pop, 1/2 resources, and are available p1 from the syssition. Such a bold patch would likely not be agreed upon as a patch for a27, but my thoughts are that an open-minded crowd using the community mod would give it a try.