real_tabasco_sauce

I like the sound of your idea a lot more than the progui solution. However, you are free to use the mouse wheel to decide a batch size. Also, you can train a batch before the previous one is complete, so the fastest click does not necessarily win. Other decisions and clicks massively outweigh this. I agree that the auto queue cancellation issue is problematic, but there should be a more elegant solution. I think freezing the queue would be ideal, no? Maybe freezing vs cancelling the queue could then just be a settings option.

Well it would certainly make RC balance testing much easier to release the gameplay changes in the a26 community mod. I think we could feel confident with more ambitious changes like the melee rebalance with this approach. We could either commit gameplay patches and then update the community mod to version 5, or update the community mod and then add changes as merge requests. @wraitii what do you think? I feel like I always try to get ppl to try the RCs and only 4 to 5 players will download, so this would be a great way to get a lot of feedback.

Here is my TLDR, sorry it is a mess. I pretty much agree with @Atrik here but add a couple thoughts. I tried it to get a cleared picture. I can already tell that the level of automation (autostart, choosing a unit composition for autoqueue) is consistent with macros, if not doing even more tasks for the player. I won't judge anyone for using it in casual games, and I have already played a few with @Atrik and others and it was fine. But in a competitive setting it should be considered cheating. I think the reason to consider it cheating is what @Feldfeld described, where a p2 attack to distract the enemy while you flawlessly boom is pretty much a guaranteed win. On top of that, it is bulky (4 options tabs, lots of screen space) and complicated on its own. It takes time to learn, just like the game underneath. So based on that I would say it is unwise to add to vanilla as some have suggested. overall, I think its a great tool, especially for new players who might just want to have fun with the AI as well as casual players that don't like the number of clicks needed to manage eco. However, it shouldn't be allowed in competitive games.

Thats a good idea. Not sure if there are other things that would be good to include. Maybe the rebalance is significant enough it should be merged by itself. Even if there is only 1 month before release, I think that would still be enough time to playtest thoroughly. That is, assuming players adopt the 5th version.

ok, I just made some small edits to the mod, but importantly released it on mod.io So if you would like to test, but haven't yet please do. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D5055

Well, @ShadowOfHassen I suggest that you keep the scope of this mod to prices. Generally, if you add more changes to some patch, its appeal will decrease. For example, I am fine with reconsidering the prices of the technologies, but I think the % change of each technology should not change.

Yeah I agree with @Feldfeld. Hotkeys and Gui rearrangements are fine, but macros such as auto-start economy should be considered cheating in a competitive setting.

The eco techs are a steady progression. Players often get all upgrades, but it may not always be appropriate to try and get the last upgrades, maybe an earlier attack will suit the situation better. Letting the last upgrade be 50% would push us right back to 'p3 or bust' gameplay, which we have worked to avoid.

Haha, the math must not have been mathing that day. But yeah, the idea was to add a multiplier for kills in early games based on global population. if the current game pop is 100 and the game population cap is 800, then that military score receives a 8x boost. This way it affects everybody equally. Now, that seemed overkill, so there had to be additional parameters to get a more reasonable multiplier. Then you can make further changes to more heavily affect the low pop scenarios, with higher pop scenarios approaching a multiplier of 1. Basically, the statistic becomes more complicated than the value it is supposed to represent, so plenty of people agreed that its better to just keep simple statistics.

Yeah, obviously there will be 'growing pains' when trying some new mod, so it will not be immediately OP. For example, I have many features of autociv turned off because they are unfamiliar to me (and because I have a small screen). @alre maybe I should elaborate: with all players using auto start, automated eco, and auto sniping like you suggested elsewhere, you begin to homogenize gameplay. Its inevitable. In contrast, the current 'manual' economy and military gameplay allows people to make mistakes, to learn, and to try fun and new approaches in order to get better at the game.

If there is time for other balancing related things, would people consider it worthwhile to do a melee/ranged rebalance? I have a pretty good version already in gitlab: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...melee_buff?from_project_id=36954588&straight=false It has been play-tested some, but its hard to conclude much. I think it would be refreshing to bring the ranged meta to a close. The only downside would be that we need plenty of willing playtesters, which has been very difficult to get organized on the release candidate.

I agree on points 1,2, and 3. modders are free to do what they want, but if I was in a tournament and my opponent was using Progui, I would call it cheating. I can tell you for sure that with all players using automated eco, and even more so for automated sniping, the game would simply be a lot less fun.

yeah I guess the britons were also without potatoes. Maybe an ancient incan 'easter egg' can be 'would you like potatoes with that'. A 1/1000 chance maybe.

I think the point is it is supposed to sound awkward. I am a fluent english speaker, but when I tell my briton soldier to go chop wood, it is more interesting to hear an ancient language. If I hear "Would you like fries with that?" it would seem out of place coming from a 100 BC slinger. Obviously its not always possible to do this accurately, but a close attempt is still awesome.

Woah now, definitely stick to 25% for each upgrade. Remember that 25% is already a greater change to gather rate with each technology. The game is already well balanced around 25% increase for each upgrade, so 50% would be unpopular in my understanding. As for the pricing, it is best to try and avoid upgrades costing more than 2 resources, but I wouldn't be 100% against it. The reasoning here is to keep costs simple so you can set up your economy for particular strategies. As for the problems in a27, I can't see the new version in mod.io. what is the current version number? Often things that cause mods to not work are files in the wrong directory, missing commas and other syntax, and misspelling modification paths.

I can only test things so much by myself. Gameplay impacts of changes take multiple games to assess, so it makes a lot of sense to maintain them in one mod. Just like a community test environment which used to be common in many games.

Releases should still be well balanced. We don't want to divide the community as it is with the current community mod. balancing stuff can be done in the community mod, why not, but it is more helpful and impactful to try more experimental things in the mod. Basically we can try stuff that will really shake up the meta (and possibly balance) without risking a release being poorly balanced.

I support this decision. As for balancing, there is not a whole lot changed, so it shouldn't be too hard. Some things to consider: Check how the ele nerf turned out. consider removing elephant friendly fire. catapults overnerfed? if so, consider adding a small splash radius of 1 or 2 meters. depending on timing, maybe it would be worthwhile to consider @borg-'s updated sparta patch for a27?

cat-aphract

There's probably just not enough space. Another good reason to reduce ship sizes.

This is the case where I would love for 'enter' to mean confirm or submit. In theory the same could go for the delete unit confirmation. @wowgetoffyourcellphone I like the redesign. The additional context provided is good too.

Sad, but it makes sense. The release is already delayed a little (from ff)

Will some of @wraitii's optimizations make it into RC2 or are these considered features, which have to wait?

@alexroses47 are you using a27 or a26? if you are using a27, the config file will be in a different location for some reason. I ask this because I was changing my config for a26 and confused why no changes were being applied to a27. Mine is in: /Users/me/Library/Containers/com.wildfiregames.0ad/Data/Library/Application\ Support/config/ I think this has something to do with the app now being signed. @Stan` probably knows more. Sorry I was confusing. @Stan` is right.

while I like AOE2 a lot, one thing I disagree with is how much vision buildings and units have towards the end of the game. It just makes it very difficult to be surprising, even more so in a game like 0ad where counters are less strict.