[The Kingdom of Kush: A proper introduction [Illustrated]]

40 minutes ago, fatherbushido said:

I don't know if it has already been posted but now we come full circle!

https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/11732-other-the-kingdom-of-kush-671-bc-ad-350/&tab=comments#comment-190206

(For those who don't know the author of that post contribute a lot to old design.)

Thanks. It was pointed out a little while back. The topic had been archived or something so it wasn't publicly viewable at first. I stumbled upon it by chance over a year ago (was still able to read it through the profile of Shogun144) and was actually pleasantly surprised and impressed, especially for something written 11 years ago!

Since then, our collective knowledge on Kushites has evolved, so Shogun's piece has become a little outdated. I'll post a quick commentary with some comments and few corrections:

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The Kingdom of Kush forms an important phase in the history of what is now Sudan and parts of northern Ethiopia. While much of Kush’s history is outside 0 AD’s time frame it is important as it leads into the Meroitic Period. Which stands today as among the most important of the pre-Islamic African cultures.

The Assyrian invasion of Egypt proved to be the beginning of Kush’s end. The 25th Dynasty of Kushite kings who ruled over Egypt in what has been considered one of history’s greatest ironies, was brought to an end in the mid 7th Century. Despite a spirited defense by both the Pharaoh Taharqa and his son Tanutamon the Assyrians conquered Egypt in three general invasions, the first in 671, the second in 667, and the last in 663. After 663 the 25th Dynasty retreated to Kush, taking residence at Napata. From this base the Kushites kept Egyptian culture, enshrining it. They looked up to their period of rule in the north with pride. The Egyptians however did not, and under the Saite dynasty which led Egypt to independence from Assyria, they sacked Napata in 590 at the orders of Pharaoh Necho II. The sack reinvigorated Kush which began to pour itself into a massive drive to modernize its army and retake Egypt.

The first battle between the resurgent Neo-Assyrian Empire and Egypt was in 720 BC, with the Egyptian nomarch Tefnakht forming a buffer between the Assyrian invasion of Gaza and Piye's newly conquered Egyptian territories. In the battle of Eltekeh, 701 BC, Taharqa fought the Assyrians in Judea and then again in 673 outside of Ashkelon. 

 

The Iron Age of Nile Africa had begun. The lessons learned from Assyria and the Saitic Egyptians forced Kush to reevaluate itself and its army. Taking advantage of both Kush’sstrategic position on the Red Sea and its natural iron wealth the kingdom turned into one large iron forge. This transformation coincided with developments to the north as the Satic Dynasty fell to the might of Persia in 525. As a trade kingdom Kush felt this change through the arrival of Persian merchants, whose culture began to have an impact on the kingdom. As Egypt fell, Kush became more steadily unique and less of a clone of its northern neighbor, continuing to keep elements of Egyptian culture but with their own uniquely Kushite twist. This change was gradual and the full effects would not be felt for some time. This all came to fruition centuries later after Persia itself fell and was replaced by the Hellenistic successors of Megas Alexandros, Alexander the Great. 

Hellenic culture had probably first reached Kush by traders, and was reinforced by their sudden arrival in the area by force. Around the 270s (exact date unknown given the uncertainties of Kushite history) a revolution occurred in Napata. Previously the priests of Amun Re, the supreme deity of the Egyptian pantheon, would try to control the sitting Pharaoh by pretending to receive a message from the deity saying the ruler’s time on the throne was up. The Pharaoh was then expected to commit suicide and go on to the afterlife. But the sitting Pharaoh of the time, Arakamani, was educated by Hellenic tutors. This led him to reject the ritual and with a sizable body of troops he marched on Napata. Once there he entered the temple of Amun Re and ransacked it, killing the entire priesthood in the process. 

Arakamani, to distance himself from Napata and the old order, then had his pyramid built not at Napata but further south at Meroe in Upper Kush. The city was already famous by this time. Meroe, besides being the central hub of several overland and over water trade routes, lay in the middle of a seasonal rain belt. This combination made Meroe one of the largest and most wealthy cities south of Egypt. It was also defensible, surrounded by rivers on three sides (the Nile, the Atbara, and the Blue Nile), causing several ancient authors to mistakenly believe Meroe to have been an island. Arakamani could not have chosen a better site to make his break with the past. The Meroitic Period had begun.

It was here then, in the Meroitic Period that Kush truly became separate of Egypt. Almost immediately following the move to Meroe and the reign of Arakamani the differences between old Kush and the new period in Meroe became steadily more pronounced. Amun Re was cast aside by the new Kushite priesthood created by Arakamani. In his place they put the native lion-headed deity, Apedemak. Other religious changes were wrought which saw the entire pantheon revamped and only a few Egyptian deities remained. But this was not the only change. The Egyptian language suddenly ceased to be the accepted language of the kingdom early in Meroitic history. In its place a new language, only now being deciphered, was created called (fittingly) Meroitic. This language was a mixture of Egyptian ‘cursive’ and a strange alphabetic script of unknown origins. Although we can identity the derivatives of Meroitic by common words shared between them. By far the most momentous changes were in the nobility and the royal family itself.

Amun was never cast aside. Even during the height of the Meroitic Period, Amun continued to reign as the unchallenged supreme deity, evidenced by the continued construction of massive Amun temples at Meroë, Dangeil, El Hassa, Naqa and probably more. These Amun temples dwarfed the Apedemak temples, and Meroitic rulers still routinely assumed the name of Amun, including Arakamani himself, as well as his successor Amanislo. "Amani" is simply the Kushite name for Amun... See names like Amanirenas, Amanitore, Amanikhatashan, Amanishakheto, Amanikharaqerem, Natakamani, Tanyidamani, etc... All Meroitic period rulers. 

 

In this case the trappings of Egyptian culture were almost entirely thrown off. After the move to Meroe the upper classes gradually stopped using the old traditions borrowed from Egypt. Everything from social norms to names changed to something different. Modern historians believed the nobility may have attempted to revert to the practices of early Kush before contact with Egypt, mixed in with bits and pieces of other cultures (Egyptian, Persian, and Hellenic). One well attested example was that Meroitic nobility scarred themselves, an old Kushite practice. Accompanying these changes was the sudden newfound equality of women. Meroitic artwork shows women often equal to men standing alongside them on even terms, sometimes helping their husbands smite his foes. Occasionally the woman did the smiting.

The trappings of Egyptian culture were never thrown off. They rather evolved, and were infused with archaic as well as modern influences. The differences between the Napatan and Meroitic period were real, but not as extreme as once thought. Pharaonic culture essentially continued.

 

One of the greatest changes however was that in Meroe the Pharaoh no longer reined supreme. His power was held in check by a figure known as the Kandake, corrupted into English through Latin as Candace. The Kandake was one of the most important women in the royal court and usually either the Pharaoh’s wife or some other close female relative. The office was neither hereditary or for life, since they were elected from a pool of royal candidates by the council of priests. This was similar to the practice used for the succession of the Pharaoh, who was also elected from a pool of eligible royal candidates. But his office was for life. The Kandake technically had to share power with another woman, usually an older relatived called the Qore. The Qore was the supreme authority in the household, but real power was held by the Kandake. On occasion when the Pharaoh was too young to rule or unfit the Kandake would be appointed by the priests to rule in his place.

Kandake should be seen as a "Queen Mother", (not necessarily the king's mother or his wife). Qore is not a female title. It's explicitly male, and translates into King. The confusion arises because Queen Amanirenas assumed the title of both Qore and Kandake. She also called herself "son of Amun", clearly in order to solidify her authority as sole ruler. 

 

Other changes that were not so pronounced will also be examined. In Meroitic Kush the farmers were no longer the center of the economy and were replaced by cattle herders. The cow assumed a place of importance and temples dedicated to Apedemak often were decorated with scenes of cattle, usually the breeding and caring of the animals. The ceramics, which are always important to archaeologists, also changed from the bright red of the earlier periods to a polished black for the Meroitic. Iron production however was one thing that did not change and the constant production of the metal is one of the enduring legacies of Meroe, and the catalyst for its eventual downfall.

Ancient Kush was a large amalgamation of peoples, some of them exclusively sedentary farmers concentrated on the Nile banks, others semi-nomadic and nomadic cattle herders in the hinterlands. Both groups were vital to the survival of Kush since the days of the Kerma Period. One can not be argued to be more important than the other. Polished black pottery had likewise been produced since the Kerma period, and Meroitic pottery was extremely diverse, most known for their exquisite eggshell wares. 

 

The Kingdom of Meroe began to achieve its greatest prosperity in the last century before Christ. With Meroe itself leading the way the cities of Kush had achieved a splendid prosperity thanks to the wealth of the Red Sea trade to and from India. As well as the kingdom’s natural wealth, thanks to its rich supply of iron and gold. Ivory from elephants, a sacred animal in Meroitic Kush, was also valuable as was Ostrich feathers. All of these were in high demand to the north in the rump Ptolemaic state and more importantly their Roman overlords. This highlighted the growing threat of Rome, which successive Meroitic Pharaohs became increasingly worried. One reason was that Ptolemaic Egypt and Meroitic Kush had a specific agreement on a series of temples that both kingdoms shared by religion that sat along their borders (between Upper Egypt and Lower Kush). As long as neither power attempted to take over the area they remained at peace, even though the intermittent border wars continued in spite of it. But it was unknown if the Romanswould honor the agreement. This led to tensions all along the border zone, called the Dodekaschoenos. 

In 24 BC the most notable event in the history of Meroe occurred, a military confrontation with Rome. By this time Ptolemaic Egypt had been annexed by the newborn Roman Empire, and the Kingdom of Meroe, who had had limited contact with the Romans, was eager to press the limits to which they could go. In 24, while Augustus Caesar recalled Aelius Gallus after his failed invasion into Arabia, the Kandake of Meroe, Amanirenas, ordered an invasion of the north. This was in part motivated by what Amanirenas may have seen as a sacred duty. As the High Priestess of Isis, recognized by both Kushite and Egyptian alike, she may have saw it as best to annex the temples to Meroe for protection. Meroitic troops annexed the Dodekaschoenos and raided as far north as Aswan. Rome reacted quickly by sending Caius Petronius, who launched a counter invasion. But Amanirenas ordered her troops to fall back and allow the Romans to take Napata. Petronius enslaved the population and burned the town, famously remarking that Kush was not worth the effort to conquer. As the Romans went back north the Kandake launched a counterattack, surprising the Romans with their superior archery and elephant corps. Petronius was victorious in the end and Amanirenas surrendered. Negotiations with Augustus resulted in a peace treaty to return to the status quo, but markedly with the reestablishment of the Dodekaschoenos zone between Egypt and Kush, but with a Roman garrison close by. Future generations of Roman emperors were cautioned by Augustusto contain Meroe, but not to conquer it, out of respect.

Kushite agression against the Romans seems to have been a direct result of Roman attempts to tax resident Kushites in Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt, which had been a taboo for a long time. The "Ethiopians" of Lower Nubia and perhaps even parts of Upper Egypt were under Kushite authority, not Egyptian, and any militarization of the area could lead to war, which in this case, it did. The Roman invasion of Arabia coincided with the Kushite invasion of Upper Egypt. This wasn't by chance. The Roman presence in Egypt was reduced due to the Arab campaign, making them look weak to the Kushites, who quickly capitalized on their absence. Amanirenas wasn't the one to lead the attack though. The Kushites were led into Egypt by King Teriteqas, who died early in the war. Amanirenas didn't assume full control until after Prince Akinidad was also killed and Napata was sacked, leaving a serious power vacuum that the Queen Mother exploited to assume full "king"ship. Petronius definitely wasn't victorious though. His sack of Napata (which is even disputed), didn't seem to achieve anything other than anger the Kushites even further, and the southern forces of Meroë don't even seem to have been engaged until this stage of the war. The Roman forces moving all the way back to the northern border without capturing Meroë should be seen as a retreat, especially seen as they were followed by the largest Kushite force assembled yet. Their position at Karanog was laid under siege and there doesn't seem to have been a way to relieve them without sending in extra legions, in a time when the Roman Empire was already overstretched. The Romans didn't have a choice than to negotiate peace, or risk loosing at least 1 legion and part of the valuable grain produce from Egypt. It's obvious, considering the Romans relinquished all claims over Kushite territory and people (giving up entire cities), and by their own admission, gave in to all of Amanirenas' demands... Amanirenas was absolutely victorious, and the immediate rise of Kushite wealth and construction boom illustrates this quite well. Don't get me wrong, if the Romans would have sent in a few more legions they would have eventually crushed Kush. But they were not in a position to risk yet another protracted war, so close to their most important sources of grain, and peaceful trade would prove to be mutually beneficial anyway. 

 

These events were followed by a Meroitic golden age. The period from AD 12 to 20 is often referred to as the height of Meroitic Kush and roughly corresponds to the reign of Pharaoh Natakamani and his wife, the Kandake Amanitore. This royal couple is the best known monarchs in Meroitic history, partly because they were its greatest builders. Together Natakamani and Amanitore either restored and built over from scratch a majority of the surviving temples and monuments dating from this period in modern Sudan. Natakamani is also known to historians as the architect of a new smaller type pyramid, which he urged future generations to use. Confusingly however is that from the artwork found at the temple of Apedemak at modern Naqa it appears the two rulers led the kingdom to war and lost two of their sons to this conflict. But no record of any conflict exists elsewhere. It any case the period of their rule is still considered one of the best periods in Meroitic history.

Previous generations of historians had assumed that Kush was a peaceful country without much internal conflict. This is absolutely not the case, and from the many royal stele's and the abundance of depictions of war captives during all periods of Kushite history, it's clear that Kush was in a near perpetual state of warfare with it's periphery. Weaker rulers might not have controlled much outside of a few important cities on the Nile, while the most powerful rulers conquered mercilessly in all directions, reaching Sudan's Northern and Southern borders. 

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As one last note on this phase of history we know today that Kandake Amanitore was mentioned in the Christian Bible. In the Book of Acts Philip the Evangelist converts to the still small Christian faith an ‘Ethiopian Eunuch’ who then takes his faith back to his queen, Candace of Ethiopia. The New Testament of the Bible was originally written in Koine Greek, which referred to Kush as Ethiopia. This was repeated in Roman records, as can be seen in the accounts of Amanirenas’ war with Augustus. What is today called Ethiopiawas called Aksum, after the primary city and kingdom of the region during that time. 

However the prosperity and glory of Meroitic Kush that was overseen by Natakamani would not outlast him. When the Pharaoh died in AD 20 his surviving son, who may have been his eldest to start with, succeeded him. But Arikaharor was not his father and the building spree that had marked Natakamani’s reign ground to a halt. This traditionally marks what historians refer to as the long decline of the Meroitic kingdom, for lack of any better evidence. Modern archeology points the pursuit of iron may have been the catalyst. As the number of iron forges increased to keep up with the demand for Kushite iron the harvesting of so much wood to feed the furnaces may have turned the lush lands around Meroe into desert. Without fertile lands agriculture and cattle herding suffered and forced them to go further and further out to find lands to grow food and feed the cows.

There was a second construction boom during the second and third centuries, prior to the Roman crisis of the third century, which seems to have badly affected Kush as well. 

 

The death of Nero and the end of the Julio-Claudian Dynasty had effect even on Meroe. Nero had made it clear during his reign that he had designs on the southern kingdom and regardless of Augustus’ instruction intended carry it out. But at the last moment he canceled his plans, content with the information gathered for him by the military. This did not make him well liked by Kandake Amanikhatashan, who started to rule in 62. To spite Nero’s memory she backed Vespasian to become Roman emperor after he was proclaimed by his troops in July, 69. After the Senate confirmed Vespasian as emperor and he sent his son Titus to deal with the Great Jewish Revolt the Kandake took the opportunity to send a sizable cavalry force to Jerusalem to aid Titus. While the final contribution of the Meroitic squadron was slight it did boost relations and the new Flavian dynasty promised to uphold the old treaty.

I would like to know more about Amanikhatashan. I'm impressed by the mention of this event, as I haven't been able to find much on the subject myself. 

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In the 2nd Century AD a sudden change took place in Kush with the rise of the nomads. These nomads were divided into two groups: The Blemmyes and the Noba. Both group paid homage to the Pharaoh at Meroe and the Blemmyes especially were valued for their fighting abilities. In the late 1st Century AD the Meroitic court moved the Blemmyes as a people and settled them in Lower Kush along the border with Rome. But by the 2nd Century the Blemmyes had begun to display an increasing degree of independence from Meroe, even to the degree of having their own king. This in turn led to the Blemmyes becoming more and more settled and urban. Even as this happened however the introduction into the region of the camel allowed the Blemmyes to become much more potent militarily. While nothing is known for certain it is believed that thanks to the camel the Blemmyes transformed into a real threat to both Meroe and Rome. Both states were raided unmercifully even as the king of the Blemmyes still paid tribute to Meroe. This resulted in the tangled situation in which Meroe still commanded the loyalty of some of the Blemmyes, but most of them had turned into raiders.

The 3rd Century AD accelerated the decline of Meroitic Kush. With the Blemmyes’ newfound power now rampaging across both Upper Egypt and all Kush at will even the formidable might of Rome was shaken. With the continuing decline of arable land in the kingdom the situation grew worse, even though evidence suggests the authorities managed to avoid starvation and kept a reasonable amount of stability. However the wealthy Red Sea trade that had practically sustained the Meroitic kingdom began to shift during this time. Instead of flowing to Meroe, the routes now flowed to Aksum. The kingdom of Aksum, the forerunner of modern Ethiopia, had been founded in the late 1st Century BC. With the changing routes from India the Aksumite kingdom could now take full advantage of the great wealth offered by the trade. To protect its interests Aksumexpanded militarily seizing control of Meroe’s Red Sea coast, thus severing it from maritime routes. Other Aksumite military adventures were aimed at Upper Kush, trying to sever the overland routes. When this was defeated they instead bypassed Meroitic Kush, creating a pricing war with Meroe which the latter ultimately lost. In the closing years of the century there appeared a moment of renewed hope as problems in the Roman Empire, the so called Crises of the Third Century, had lead the empire to all but abandon the Dodekaschoenos.

But this hope proved illusory. Diocletian, who had brought the Crises to an end and created the Tetrarchy, realized that with the threat of the Blemmyes that occupying the Dodekaschoenos was no longer viable. He decided to abandon the area, but rather then allow it to be occupied by Meroe, Diocletian invited the Noba to occupy the area. Still living on the western bank of the Nile, the more ‘civilized’ Noba saw their chance to break with Meroitic Kush and took it. Crossing the river in force the Noba attacked both Meroeand the Blemmyes before making it into the Dodekaschoenos, even as the Romans withdrew further back into Egypt, though they maintained control of the primary temple at Philae. With the settling of the Noba in the Dodekaschoenos the kingdom of Meroe was deprived of another major ally, which turned against them. The Noba quickly formed their own state, called Nobatia which combined elements of both Hellenic and Meroitic cultures, and went to war with the Blemmyes.

The 4th Century was the final one for Kush. By this point the end of Meroe was all but finished. The building of monuments and temples and even pyramids (small as the Kushitemodel was) had completely stopped. The kingdom no longer had the ability to support these projects, much less the state itself. With most of the former kingdom either annexed to the Blemmye tribes and Nobatia to the north and Aksum to the south Meroe was in pitiful condition. In the early years of the century the Aksumite King Aphilasconquered Meroe but left the city standing, instead demanding they pay homage to Aksum. Pharaoh Yesbokheamani agreed, and the kingdom had for all intents and purposes ceased to exist. However as a vassal state Meroe continued to function as the cultural predecessor of a new people just beginning to form. The Ballana culture or X-Group as it is called first appeared in the 4th Century and appears to have originated from intermarriage between the Noba and the Kushites. This new culture borrowed much from Kush and was also distinctly unique in that it took in other influences as well. The Ballana are considered the ancestors of the Nubian peoples. Strife with Aksum continued to plague Upper Kush for many years until finally in 350 AD the Aksumite King Ezana, the first Christian monarch, led his troops north and demolished Meroe. The destruction of the city marked the end of Kush as a kingdom, even though it continued to persist culturally and linguistically for at least another century.

First time I heard about King Aphilas... Again, I'm impressed, though I'd like to know more. 

In conclusion the kingdom of Kush left a major imprint on Africa. Because of a close proximity to the giants of Egypt and early Ethiopia the Kushite state is often overlooked in history. But its influence on the development of the region is undeniable, though still misunderstood due to both the Meroitic script itself and racial nationalism.

 

[===[TASK]=== Crowd Sourced - Illyrians (Faction)]

Ooooh...

[Lack of Eastern]

29 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

If they can't build in the rocks how looks like their buildings?

Only a handful of their structures are carved from the rock. They're just the most well preserved archaeological remains of Petra which is why they're so famous, but "regular" structures weren't cut from the rock. There are also other archaeological sites like Avdat, Wadi Rum, Haluza, Mapsis and more... 

Petra:

 

Wadi Rum

 

Avdat (mixed with later ruins)

 

Haluza

[===[COMMITTED]=== Scythian Archer - Athens (Rework)]

@wackyserious, That's the inspiration for the Dahae horse archer used by the Seleucids

[===[COMMITTED]=== Scythian Archer - Athens (Rework)]

@wackyserious, Here's some more Scythian refs:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[0 A.D. on YouTube]

 

[Ratings Disputes and Offence Reporting (Discussion)]

1 hour ago, Angen said:

Max789Power (857) hosted the rated game and exited without resign when was loosing.

Poor guy... He needs some tips on how to play, asap! 

 

[I was just banned]

Do you have 3 forum accounts?

I've also witnessed people complaining about this guy randomly kicking them from his games. He's obviously toxic in the forum, and toxic in the lobby as well. 

Kicking people for using massed ranged units, using siege equipment, or even choosing the "wrong" civ, insulting people in the lobby, etc... 

There really isn't any need to validate him any further...  

 

[20 tips to improve your skills by Borg-]

38 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

All in favor?

Aye

[===[TASK]=== Rome Barracks Update]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Nice, so what we'd do is scale it down. This is done by scaling down the "amount" of each feature rather than scaling the whole thing at once. So, the final one would have only 4 windows up top, not six. The inside collonades would be 4 columns instead of 6, etc. Doing it this way, the outer walls naturally shrink laterally to fit. The height axis remaining the same.

Spoiler

 

Adding that distinctive red line at the bottom makes the concept look a little better:

Some more Principia examples:

Spoiler

 

[===[TASK]=== Rome Barracks Update]

6 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

I heavily disagree, visual communication is not "above all authenticity or real scale", I find that notion preposterous. Visual communication is 1/3 and each of the others 1/3. I fail to see what was wrong with the original model in this thread, surely a few tweaks, and on to more important matters? @Stan`? @Enrique? @LordGood?

That being said, @Nescio DID publish an image of an HQ with a collonaded courtyard. THAT is what the game needs, because it is the single most important feature of almost all Greek/Roman architecture, colonnaded courtyards and colonnades and later arch-galleries. The Ptolemies need it, the Seleucids need it, everyone needs a bit more colonnaded courtyards.

I agree entirely with this. Visual communication, authenticity and real scale are indeed 1/3 each, or something like that. There always needs to be a balance. The layout of the Principia/Headquarters building isn't even that different from the other barracks in-game. It's actually quite similar...

 

5 hours ago, LordGood said:

We are not copying reconstructions blow for blow, and at the end of the day, a game's assets need to be accessible and of clear purpose for new players. This is top priority.

Historical accuracy and visual communication don't need to be mutually exclusive. A lot of your work illustrates this. We're not saying that we need a scientifically measured historical reconstruction of the Roman Principia, but why not just follow the general plan? Form and function... Especially for a civilization so well studied as the Romans... 

 

I made a quick concept based on the Headquarters buildings I shared earlier. Just imagine this with lots of military props like shields, spears, banners, practice dummies or whatever... Adjust the scale as you like... Feel free to use a more monumental entrance. Make the elevated roof of the sacellum in the rear of the building more prominent, or use more stone in the texture, or whatever... This structure doesn't look like any other structure in the Roman building set. With some military props, it will be immediately recognizable as the "barracks". And it would actually be accurate, more or less. 

The historicity in 0AD is a great source of value and a big distinguishing feature for this game. There are already plenty of mediocre representations of Antiquity in pop-culture. I know this game can do better, and in many respects it already is. It's one of the things i love most about 0AD, and it would be nice to see us all build on this, rather than dumbing it down, which puts us in direct competition with much bigger commercial studios. 

Spoiler

No:

 

Yes:

 

[===[TASK]=== Rome Barracks Update]

16 minutes ago, Nescio said:

and it seems to satisfy the criteria: aesthetically pleasing, historically accurate, and conforming to the layout of barracks of other factions.

That was exactly the one that poked my interest the most, for the same reasons.

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Hardknott Roman Fort is an archeological site, the remains of the Roman fort Mediobogdum, located on the western side of the Hardknott Pass in the English county of Cumbria (formerly part of Cumberland).

Built between about 120 and 138

This was a typical headquarters building, if small. It had a courtyard, with the remains  a tribunal platform, where the cohort could be addressed, Behind was the trans hall across the building with 3 rooms behind it, including  the cohort shrine, where the standard was stored, and perhaps an alter

 

Spoiler

Principia in the middle

 

Cleaning up the reference a little bit

 

[===[TASK]=== Rome Barracks Update]

45 minutes ago, Enrique said:

From your references, I can already see quite some structural combinations that are quite similar to the example layouts/structure forms, don't you think?

Why not just follow the references? The shape has a function. That elevated part in the centre of the rear end of the structure for example is the sacellum, or aedes (don't shoot me, my Latin is deplorable), a small shrine, which was a recurring element of this structure. 

 

45 minutes ago, Enrique said:

There has to be always a balance between aesthetic (not boring), accurracy (not too "fantastic") and gameplay (follow the layout guidelines of the barracks)

Yeah, but there's no need to reinvent the wheel when you're modeling structures for a historical game and you actually have primary references to work with. Where's the educational aspect of just winging it? Besides, there is enough historical variation to pick and choose from. Granted, the examples date to imperial times, but maybe someone can find a republican parallel. Here's some more inspiration:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Some bigger ones:

 

 

[===[TASK]=== Rome Barracks Update]

Why not look at actual Roman barracks/fortresses for inspiration? Most of the reconstructions I see have a central structure which they call Principia, the headquarters, which is the central administrative structure/armory/religious centre  of the fortress, surrounded by the barracks and other structures. Here's some archaeological info on the Roman Principia: http://www.curlesnewstead.org.uk/pdfs/curlechapter03.pdf

These examples are from AD period I believe, but I don't think it really matters...

Spoiler

Quote

(D) PRINCIPIA 
The principia was the building that was the headquarters of the fort. It contained offices, archives, a shrine, storerooms, and a strong room where the soldiers' pay was kept. 

 

Principia can be seen here in the centre

 

Clearly visible in the centre

 

Close ups

 

Interesting roof elevations on these reconstructions of actual barracks, surrounding the Principia

 

 

 

[0 A.D. on YouTube]

Good stuff!

 

(Some in-game anti-aliasing would make that video thumbnail look 10 times better...)

[===[TASK]=== Trees]

1 hour ago, Hannibal_Barca said:

• too many bananas, wild bananas so long ago had quite few, but if we want a nice visual then alright, but half would do

Apparently that's what some of the South Indian (Kerala) bananas look like. Those bananas are short and thick, and they grow in huge bunches like that. Plantains used for cooking, and much more widely grown than bananas (at least in Africa) are larger/longer but less densely spaced. 

 

1 hour ago, Hannibal_Barca said:

•  the supporting stem is too thin

Actually I think it's fine. There's usually just a lot of dead leaves hanging down obscuring the stem, but when it's trimmed (most cultivators would cut aways dead leaves), then the stem is visible, and it's about the right size in the screenshots. If those bananas aren't being tended to, then yeah, there could be a mess of brown leaves hanging straight down against the stem. 

 

For the rest I think they look good. I only think that some of the leaves could have a more rounded tip. A variant with a smaller bunch isn't a bad idea. And another variant for plantains (cooking bananas) wouldn't be bad either  

[RfC: Improve discovery of multi-unit farming]

Spoiler

 

[Punic in 0 A.D.]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

basically everyone wants more Greeks and only Greeks.  Those who say they don't are in denial.

Hahahaha! No comment...

 

2 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Silliness aside, there are plenty of responses that could be given that are less Jewish sounding.  The Greek voice acting mainly consists of "What is it?" (not a traditional greeting).  At least according to a forum post that apparently quoted a scholarly source, there might be indication that it Shalom was employed quite regularly in Punic even as a greeting:

Very interesting, thank you! 

[Punic in 0 A.D.]

21 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

I would definitely find the Hasmonean Jewish nation to be a fantastic addition to the game,

Spoiler

For the wonder, should we go with Zerubbabel's temple (536 - 516 BC), or Herod's temple (second half of the 1st century BC)? Neither of them are actually Hasmonean or "Maccabee", although it was refurbished/rebuilt during Hasmonean times as well. Perhaps we should use a more generic term like Judeans? 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Another thing I would like to quickly point out is that Classical Hebrew's phonology is generally based on what is called Tiberian, which comes roughly A.D. 800, in Judaea, not from European Jews.

I'm definitely no expert, I just thought European Jews influenced the modern pronunciation of Biblical Hebrew, which is why I thought the Yemeni example was interesting. But I really dunno...

 

31 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

A further issue with carelessly making an amalgamation of the two separate languages is the repercussions that would have on the transliteration.  If Aramaic seems like a better option, then we should go over Hebrew.  

I meant that it would be nice to have Proto Berber Libyan units speaking Amazigh, to differentiate them from the Hebrew speaking Punics, lol, that sounds so weird.... Maybe they should just speak English. I honestly don't know if Punic sounded more like Aramaic or Hebrew. Seems like there's different answers for different times. During the heyday of Carthage, it seems to have been more different from Hebrew, but again, no expert here. 

 

35 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

What concerns me about attempting to do Phoenician or Punic is the general lack of any good scholarly lexicons readily available (Unless I've missed something).  What would be done for more obscure words other than haphazardly bringing in another language?  Obviously Hebrew and Aramaic are hardly the best options, but they are certainly the easiest not correct ones to depict well.

I agree... I was basically just stating that I prefer the Jewish flavor for a Jewish faction, instead of having the North African civ sounding overly Jewish. But then again, maybe they did? I'm just imagining our Hero Hannibal during a 0AD match going "Shalom" anytime I select him, and it sounds a bit funny. 

[Punic in 0 A.D.]

Phoenician mixed with some Proto Berber would be the closest approximation of ancient Punic. Phoenician, Aramaic and Ancient Hebrew are related, but it's debated to what extent they were actually mutually intelligible. There were apparently some fundamental differences in pronunciation, and in some cases Phoenician was more similar to Arabic and Aramaic respectively than Hebrew, which is technically more closely related, I believe. I think Phoenician and Hebrew were quite similar in the early first millennium BC, but diverged more strongly in the second half of the millennium, with the emergence of Punic widening it still. 

Potential Yiddish accents flavouring reconstructed modern or classic Hebrew for a North African civ also seems a bit weird. 

Perhaps Yemenite Hebrew is something interesting to look at (seems to be more archaic). And what about Amazigh for Libyan units? 

Then we can reserve Hebrew for a future Hebrew faction, the Maccabees/Hasmonean Dynasty... They're from the right timeframe, super interesting, relevant (Seleucid/Ptolemaic/Roman interaction), and there's definitely interest (has been requested many times now). 

 

[Transliteration of Ancient Greek into English]

7 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

@Sundiata @Genava55

I don't know what Kushite voices he's talking about.. I know Stan' the man did some recordings, but were they ever committed? 90% of the written language in-game is the Napatan dialect of Late Egyptian, which was used as the official language of the Kingdom of Kush until the 3rd century BC and I believe a broken version continued to be used in some religious inscriptions for several centuries after that. Both languages were spoken during our timeframe, but I avoided too much Meroitic because there are literally only a handful of people in the world who have any real understanding of the language, and the huge bulk of the referenced texts in the research are also written in Napatan. Only a handful of terms and titles are Meroitic in game. 

As for the rest:

Spoiler

I actually studied some Greek in high school, but I'm not nearly knowledgable enough on the subject to weigh in on the discussion... 

 

11 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:

months and months pass by

Months are like days in 0AD... 17 years of development so far. Alpha 24 is still going to take many more months... Patience is key. The more antsy you get, the less likely people are going to sacrifice their free time to help you out with this. Many people have waited years to see their favorite features in game. I'm not saying it needs to take years, preferably not, but if you can't manage to reach a consensus, no progress is going to be made. Either change your approach, or properly evaluate and try to understand others' viewpoints. @Nescio's knowledge on Greek subjects is respected in this forum for good reason. If you claim one standard, and Nescio claims another standard, and both of these standards are used in academia, it's probably going to take a little more than belligerence to convince the community of one direction or the other. Frankly, this war of standards is probably a matter of personal taste, more than anything. 

[===[TASK]=== Trees]

25 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

it is often associated with folklore and superstition.

Same here...

Spoiler

Pictures I took during our Odwira festival. I wasn't exactly focussing on the tree, but there it is, in all it's mystical glory, just outside the main palace of Akropong, our traditional capital. I believe libations are poured there, among other places. 

 

Traditional musicians with the Banyan tree in the background.

 

I actually found a picture of "the" Banyan tree in Akropong from the freakin' 1870's! I assume it's the same tree, as it's referred to as "the Banyan tree of Akropong", meaning only one tree like that in town, and other pics of the time seem to show it in the same place as the pictures above. It's probably several centuries old. If trees could talk...  

 

 

[0 A.D. on YouTube]

First time player. Excellent narration...

 

Player: "Are these sheep or pigs? They look like sheep to me."

Gaia animal: "Baaah"

Player: "That is definitely a pig. Yeah, you can tell by the sound it's making. Pigs go Baaah"

 

"Yes, the women of Rome, known of course for their heavy logging", lol...

 

[Hellenizing the Ptolemies]

@LordGood, marvelous! 

Your "Civil War collection of art assets without entities yet" is look finger-lickingly delicious as well... 

[Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition]

17 minutes ago, LordGood said:

no need for an us vs them mentality, its looking good so far

But you're right. I don't mean to sh*t-talk AoE or anything, and this AoE II DE is looking promising. As I said I actually like a lot of the architecture sets. I'm just always a bit nit-picky with my favourite histories. Anyway, renewed popular interest in classic RTS games can only be good for us, so it's a win win either way.