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It’s more than just speed. CS spear inf also get destroyed when fighting head on. Maybe it would make sense to give CS spears a slight additional bonus against champ cav to prevent the use of champ cav as a meat shield against CS units

As chrstgr said, they get slaughtered even when you have a big number's advantage. In some cases where i had a bunch of spears champs from sparta or athen (note that they require special, costly buildings to make compared to champ cav), they merly counter the champ cav. They deal x2.5 but champ cav have x2 hp (when they have the buff hp), it's just not fair counter. Spears should slaughter cavs, not the other way around. They already have mobility they can use at their advantage.

Yes exactly, when 100+ cs spears get slaughtered by cavs it's just non-sens. You would think you are playing counter and therefor, even if you can't kill the cavs (because of their mobility), they also can't just run into your spears and kill all, but that's what they do actually.

Yeah. But there are two things at play. Spear counter vs inf cav AND spear counter vs champ cav. I’m saying CS Spear vs CS cav feels fine but CS spear vs champ cav isn’t. It’s very frustrating to see spears get slaughtered by melee champ cav when spear are supposed to be some sort of counter

In my opinion the issues with "op" units originates from limits of a the counter system. Spear infantry can not counter spear cav champs sufficiently, because they are too slow to keep up. Other RTS games solve this by having anti-melee-cav cav, like AoE 3 for example uses Dragoons to counter op melee cav. So if a civ doesnt have spear cav champions, they should at least have a cav unit, that counters spear cav champions.

I know you want diversity and historical accuracy. Giving each faction the very basics won't conflict with history nor decrease diversity! Argue that some Athenian and Spartan cavalrymen were very well trained, hence they are of champion level. Romans most certainly had archers, Spartans most certainly also had archers and slingers. Set Han crossbowmen to have identical stats to skirmishers and fix their farming upgrade bug. History might limit the unit type, but it says nothing about the stats. Mauryas can have a champion cavalry swordsman Persians most certainly had melee units other than spears. Give them a sword unit or an axe unit! Britons most certainly had elite level melee cavalry Every faction in this game is handicapped because some core units were removed in the name of "diversity". Now is the time to add them back! Please take a look at some factions in mods. Horses didn't exist in America, so the Zapotecs have fast "scout runner" units that look like human but has identical stats to a sword cavalry. Both balance, historical accuracy and diversity is achieved. This approach can be used in the main game.

We should have a discussion on this in the com mod topic. I had complaints that spearmen were too good especially vs melee cav, but now that its back to 2.5x I think its maybe not enough. On champ cav, the main thing is the mobility. Being able to be super selective on your fights and rarely getting trapped is such a huge factor. It means its very easy to avoid losing the cav. Mobility in general is super strong. It might be interesting to consider a cav capture debuff vs buildings, or rather a relative infantry advantage versus buildings, which is the case in aoe2. I think it makes sense for the counter to mobility to be defenses like forts. <- this is also why non-random building ai is important.

It is unreal that a horse rider can take a fortress. The capture rate or capture power should be reduced dramatically.

If you need a reason to nerf cavalry capture rate you could also say that it's not as convenient to raid a buildings with cavalry. As for swords vs spears, of course against infantry, swords are better. But spears are still the 'alpha' cav as they would counter other cavs, and do pretty much well against infantry in the same time.

To be fair, the Romans too. Maybe the issue is simply the modern interpretation of the hoplitic phalanx, which is also a debated theory.

https://youtu.be/ct3cKDKZGmU?si=S3_XTHX9rW87VXCt

I'd like to share some updates on the project. Here are some of the features we aim to include: Expandability through mods, without a strict dependency on the "public mod" (though compatibility with it will be maintained). Support for backend devices, both current and future. Independence from wxWidgets—no need for it to function. The project is still in its alpha stage, so a lot of code refactoring, UI polish, and additional features are still needed. Currently, I'm working on integrating the features available in AtlasUI. Some concepts REPO: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/trompetin17/0ad-atlas-in-game/src/branch/main/source in case you wanna try the workflow