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I think a GUI mod should just change how things look or the information that is displayed. Progui has macros that make the game easier to play. If some players have progui, it’s an unfair advantage. If everyone has progui and is accustomed to it, then we lose the production management part of 0ad and its corresponding learnable skills, resulting in a decrease in the fun of the game. Fun games are when you can’t master everything and there’s always some way to improve that rewards you with a win. If you replace a skill based facet of the game with an optimized automatic system, then there is no way to improve in that gameplay area, so it’s less fun.

It's not so much the faster boom that wins games at the higher level. Its the fact that you need to give much, much less attention to your economy. I haven't seen you do this yet, but the best player I have seen using this mod will just do a full p2 cavalry attack with 100% attention to micro while their economy is growing on its own. RTS games have an important factor of multitasking. Where the player divides their attention is extremely important, and the ability to multitask is difficult and only improved by practice. The degree to which proGUI automates the eco loses part of this important aspect of the game. No, user experience is just the user's enjoyment of a product. And making things easier does not always make them better. I think players are just enjoying it because it is making it easier for them to win against people without the mod. I really doubt players would have fun if this was standard for everyone, since everyone could execute perfect booms and then balance would come down to civs and micro. The reason I say that is because with this optimization, you are removing part of the game. Sure its not a glamorous or particularly exciting part of the game, but it is an important one and one you have to learn. No I don't. Thats not very nice. Yeah I would say players that use the automatic features of the mod are cheating, but I also think its just an experiment that didn't really work out and that your efforts would be better put elsewhere.

The Civic Center represents the central civic life of a settlement or city. So, I think it would be a great opportunity to briefly sketch that civ's method of governing.

It seems some people are detached from continuous game development and considering new features as cheats because it trully enhance gameplay and equalize some parts - look to 0ad vision Please focus on important things: - 1) secure communication - 2) revealed map cheating - 3) start hosting wfg games (to provide achieve some goals above) - 4) allow only specific mods - 5) allow players to send private messages(even limited lines per minute to avoid spamming to enable password proteced games) - 6) reading enemy stats Now we can discuss thousands days why "it is not possible"... feel free to join 0ad devs team instead to make it possible I recommend stop attacking Atrik for what his great game updates and I would try focus on "getting" great pieace of code and enhance 0ad itself... And if this is not "possible" let modders make mods and let them be passionate and helpfull. You can still use your horse and compete to cars, it is your decision. Still both are on the market and available.

If 1 player is using ProGUi with its macros and the other player isn't, then it's cheating/unlevel playing field. Now, if you are suggesting the base game's GUI should be changed to match ProGUi, that's another thing altogether. But no, you release it with compatibility checks turned off so some people can use it against others who don't have the mod. It doesn't matter if it's a 25% buff or 5% buff. It's a mod that automates things for some players over other players. It's a cheat mod. We don't have any control over what monitors people use, but we can control what mods are available and what those do. /if "ignoreInCompatibilityChecks": false /then this would be a whole different discussion. Agreed?

I don't know how feasible it is, but I would be in favor of total transparency when not using standard 0ad code. Some mods show up visibly but as I understand it's also possible to hide all kinds of cheats; I don't think that's good.

The main unfair advantage progui provides is reducing the necessary tasks of eco management and training. This means that a progui player can focus much more on overloading the multitasking ability of a player who has to actually manage their training and eco. I think the percent numerical advantage from progui mostly grows when you exploit it this way.

Creating a definitive table with estimated percentages of how much each tool or factor influences game wins is challenging because it can vary greatly depending on the specific game, player skill, and other factors. but first FAQ (what this post is and not is): no its not. its for give some different points of view and maybe better discussions and decisions later and understanding each other. thats true. as said often also in the thread first posting. However, I want provide some examples to illustrate the potential impact of certain tools or factors: Monitors: Having a larger monitor or multiple monitors can enhance visibility and provide a better gaming experience. This can potentially improve reaction time and awareness of in-game events, giving a slight advantage. Estimated influence: around 5-10% improvement in performance. Good lighting: Adequate lighting conditions can reduce eye strain and improve focus, leading to better concentration during gameplay. While it may not directly affect gameplay mechanics, it can contribute to overall player comfort and performance. Estimated influence: around 2-5% improvement in performance. Good chair and ergonomics: Comfortable seating and proper ergonomics can help reduce physical discomfort and fatigue during long gaming sessions. This can indirectly contribute to better focus and prolonged gameplay. Estimated influence: around 2-5% improvement in performance. Strong PC: A powerful gaming PC can provide smoother gameplay, faster loading times, and better graphics quality. This can enhance the overall gaming experience and potentially give a slight advantage in terms of responsiveness and performance. Estimated influence: around 5-10% improvement in performance. Spectator: Tips and reminders from while watching the game from somebody (from same room or from somewhere else), can vary depending on the individual player and their ability to multitask and process information. While the exact percentage may depend on individual factors and preferences, considering a range of -3 to 10% provides a general understanding of the potential influence that tips and reminders from a spectator can have on a player's performance in the game. It's important to note that these percentages are rough estimates and can vary depending on individual skill levels, game mechanics, and other factors. The impact of these tools or factors is also subjective and may differ from person to person. Ultimately, the skill and strategy of the player remain the most significant factors in determining game wins. mods AutoCiv Mod (with OP hotkey configuration): The AutoCiv mod, with its powerful hotkey configuration, can provide players with a significant advantage in terms of efficiency and speed in executing in-game actions. This can streamline gameplay and give players an edge in terms of productivity and decision-making. Estimated influence: around 2-8% improvement in performance. It's worth noting that the estimated influence percentages are subjective and can vary depending on the specific game, player skill, and other factors. The impact of the AutoCiv mod's hotkey configuration can be significant, but the exact influence may depend on the player's familiarity with the mod and their ability to effectively utilize the enhanced hotkeys. boonGUI (with larger map overview): The boonGUI tool, with its zoom configuration, can provide players with a larger map overview, allowing for better strategic planning and decision-making. This expanded view can give players an advantage in terms of situational awareness and map control. Estimated influence: around 1-3% improvement in performance. Again, it's important to note that the estimated influence percentages are subjective and can vary depending on the specific game, player skill, and other factors. The impact of the boonGUI tool's larger map overview can be significant, but the exact influence may depend on the player's ability to effectively utilize the expanded view and make strategic decisions based on the additional information. proGUI (with autoproduction resart): can prevent players from forgetting to restart production and ensure a more consistent and efficient resource management. The autoproduction feature can give players an advantage in terms of maintaining a steady flow of resources and units. Estimated influence: around -3 to +15% improvement in performance. Again, please note that the estimated influence percentages are subjective and can vary depending on the specific game, player skill, and other factors. The impact of the proGUI tool's autoproduction feature can be significant, but the exact influence may depend on the player's ability to effectively manage their resources and make strategic decisions based on the automated production. AbstractGUI (with object simplification): The Abstract Shapes tool can simplify complex objects in the game, such as trees, and replace them with abstract shapes. This can improve visibility and allow players to better see through obstacles or cluttered environments, giving them an advantage in terms of situational awareness and strategic planning. Estimated influence: around 1-5% improvement in performance. Again, please note that the estimated influence percentages are subjective and can vary depending on the specific game, player skill, and other factors. The impact of the Abstract Shapes tool's object simplification feature can be significant, but the exact influence may depend on the player's ability to effectively utilize the improved visibility and make strategic decisions based on the simplified objects. this is not a complete collection. BTW Innovation in any field, including gaming, often starts with individuals exploring new ideas and approaches. It's not uncommon for these ideas to be initially met with skepticism or resistance, as they may be perceived as cheating or unfair advantages. However, over time, some of these innovations may become accepted as standard practices if they are proven to enhance the overall gameplay experience and maintain a level playing field. Transparency and availability to all players is indeed an important aspect to consider when evaluating the acceptability of certain tools or techniques. If an innovation provides a significant advantage but is only accessible to a select few, it can create an imbalance and negatively impact the fairness of the game. In such cases, game developers and communities often strive to ensure that innovations are accessible to all players, either by integrating them into the game or by providing guidelines for their use. It's worth noting that striking the right balance between innovation and fairness can be challenging. Game developers and communities continuously evolve their rules and guidelines to adapt to new innovations and maintain a healthy and enjoyable gaming environment for all players. hf bb cu

I would refrain from calling it a "cheat;" that seems rather antagonistic. Its a skill in some sense - some players are better at strategically using it than others - but it does feel like its stripping an essential part of the core 0 AD experience, which is why I can't get behind it. I do think it creates an unfair advantage, but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a cheat. Admittedly, I've never tried it. I think the stock 0 AD interface is pretty good, so I don't feel the need.

Why do people keep saying I assume everything I am talking about? Of course I have played with the mod. It feels like I am sitting 'above' the game and not actually controlling the structures. I was playing an entirely different game. Right, but this is unintended and relatively harmless. And it is also not due to autociv, as far as I understand. There is a separate discussion for it. I do think it should be patched so that directing units while paused is no longer possible. So, this is not a good comparison.

some of you know already that i play since a while with icons in name with a special meaning that will added automatically if i use this mods: ♤ proGUI mod, ♇ autocivP mod maybe thats a good transparency ? and also when i start a rated game then automatically a list of all mods i use are posted.

@ShadowOfHassen "It serves as an amalgam of maternity ward/hospital/clone lab, barracks, stables, research lab a ruler's seat or other places that decisions were made and people convened, communal efforts were undertaken and signifies the heart of a settlement and is a gameplay mechanics necessity ..." or something along those lines?

it does not. have you tried playing with the mod? becasuse you really seem to be talking only on the base of assumptions. games get updates that decrease the skill gap all the time. some say it's bad, some say it's good. it depends on the change and in this case I like the change, and it's not because it gives me the edge over other players (it does not). BTW, I know everybody loves autociv, but autociv's active pause should also be banned if progui is. whenever the game is paused it gives a concrete advantage to those players that have it.

Pull request 34: some smaller fixes I converted some templates into mixins, created new mixins for the siege engines and renamed all mixins to start with encyclopedia_ https://github.com/TheShadowOfHassen/0-ad-history-encyclopedia-mod/pull/34

thats true. To prevent cheating, you would need to remove JavaScript completely on the client side. This would require creating a new game without any client-side scripting. recognizing the effort and hard work that goes into creating mods, even if they are considered cheating by some. By acknowledging the dedication and creativity of mod creators, we can encourage a positive and respectful dialogue that motivates them to continue programming and contributing to the community.

Probably, you just don't like it. Yet to be witnessed a player hiding he's using progui I guess. Maybe the name of the game is to pretend 0ad online games are very serious matter or to call cheaters peoples you don't like losing against idk, I don't understand these reactions. If some people find it useful and some don't, why not make a mod and see if some of the features stands out to be worth to adapt in the main game? I guess it's great if it's tested out on some games. If you maintain it provides such a unfair advantage you cannot stand it, then ban the mod from your games, real cheaters hide game modifications anyway, and enforcing the check with a bool is simply a joke.

All assumptions from your mind ignoring the facts that we have enough games played with players using the mod, that end up with various strategy, boom speed, eco strength to see that what you fear is the fruit of your imagination alone. You guys simply extend the actual features making some action less clicky with a fantasized AI playing for you.

Final animal pr!!!!!! https://github.com/TheShadowOfHassen/0-ad-history-encyclopedia-mod/pull/33 Honestly, this one was the hardest seeing that cattle and horse are general terms, so their entries might be lacking the focus of animals like the muxox, but I still think that's good. That's the end of the general articles, and now we only have to do history. Namely, finishing Sparta. I'll do the spartan temple (and any other temple that I think is applicable, as well as spartan Barracks where I not only want to talk about Sparta's army but how they raised the men. One last thing, I think the civilization overviews can be expanded a bit more. So I'm wondering what else should be added to the Sparta? The dates and stuff are nice, but I think more emphasis on their interesting form of government is needed as well as a mention of Lycurgus.

ProGUI inherently degrades the gameplay experience because it removes part of the game from the user experience. The economy is managed 'above' 0ad so you don't actually play the economy part of the game other than build buildings. I am not saying you are here, but going forward, lets not confuse a skill gap and level playing field. In a 1v1, if both players take the same civ (and let computer specs be basically the same), it is a level playing field. If both have proGUI it is also a level playing field. If I go up against @ValihrAnt this is also a level playing field. If a player beats another because they are better at 0ad, this is not unfair. Automation to the degree of progui decreases the skill gap aka decreases the amount of learnable skills it takes to be better than someone else. Decreasing the skill gap generally makes for less enjoyable gameplay.

Hello there, @user1 DaRockSlinger just left the game after the tides turned against him. I'm also called "macgyves" in the lobby. commands.txt

@user1 Hi, Im ALLY(1527) Gonza1995(1456) lowas losing in my very win game 1v1 and he/she Quit without resign. metadata.jsoncommands.txt

@user1 Raffut1969 (1638) left rated game when it was clearly I won (1260). commands.txt

Hi @user1 I'm TheWrath and for, at least, the 6th time, someone quits a 1v1 against me when losing... So this time, I will report the only 2 recent ones that appear in my Replays: bolivar the offender commands.txt jaxso2012 the offender commands.txt

@user1 I am sorry for the @, but a player by the name of Lolaboobaa left a rated game without resigning. They claim they got disconnected, but refuse to give the rating. Game Lobby Username: Reyu Offender Username: Lolaboobaa metadata.json commands.txt

Hello @user1,metadata.jsoncommands.txt My opponent left without resigning My user-name: AlexanDerGrosse Opponent: erator

happened again @user1, My opponent left without resignation in a rated game. My user name : Sepand44 opponent : HoodiePat23 commands.txt

hi @user1, My opponent left a rated game without resignation! My user name : Sepand44 opponent's user name : LUKATIM commands.txt

@user1commands.txt cholinos lost and rage quit against HebrewHammer tonight. Thanks for the help

I have since a few games where I am hosting the same Issue. Rating adjustment does not take place: commands.txtcommands.txt Player helped me to find out if error is just on my side. calimeroakadds vs. Z_sk Please help me, i don't know if I was BL or rating disabled due to offence etc. Thx in advance for the help and support

@user1 please report this user. I was wining when he ran away without resigning. Thank you My username: KpiTenBobZy Offender: tedour metadata.json commands.txt

I won these two games but there was no ratings change. My opponent did resign in both games and they were type rated. my username: inzhu opponent username: Nusantara 2023-07-15_0003.zip2023-07-15_0002.zip The Ratings announcement did not appear.

@user1 username: djesus username of the offending player: kingalphaisback commands.txt

I was about to win and player left Ofender: Red-Star My Name: DerekO commands.txt metadata.json

Was about to win and player left offender: Jeanc Myname: DerekO Umbritu lost his first raid and then left Offender: Umbritu My Name: DerekO commands.txt commands.txt

Was about to win and player left MY NAME: DerekO Offender user: erator commands.txt metadata.json

You think only by making assumptions, there are a lot more then building production to the 0ad economy management, and even for this part, similar skills are required in order to achieve results. Well, the skill gap is untouched. I know some players using progui that boom faster then me (or generally stronger eco), and some that boom slower (or generally weaker eco). I think the mood of a player influence his performance more the usage or not of progui. Interfaces are supposed to translate user will into actions, so for the production part, if you like how progui translates your input into actions, then it increase game experience. User Experience (UI/ UX)is the field of trying increase usability, generally by reducing clicks requited to achieve user will. I was already good at booming before using progui, most pro players using it would tell you progui trainer actually slow them down a bit, at least for the time they aren't use to manage it actively very well. So now when you say "ProGUI inherently degrades the gameplay experience", who does it apply to? It's own users? It seems unlikely anybody would have picked it up, notice no improvements, and suddenly pretend to still like it and to start using it. It's true that the trainer could help you optimize production theoretically, in practice, a 0ad game has enough variables to make it insignificant. Getting housed for 15+ sec is very common even in pro games. And impact your eco more then the 0.5 sec gained by using the trainer. It's a small enough unfair advantage. However in general because of the growing divides that this mod seems to create into a already small community, I'm thinking about terminating the project. Some people are getting harassed for using this mod it's simply ridiculous. If seemingly reasonable people like you or @wowgetoffyourcellphone deem it just a cheat comparable to real cheats then I'll do it. I'll know forever that you guys probably just had stupid biases to think the interface exactly as it was in a unrelated game from last century.