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Nescio

Selection shapes

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4 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

I understood, we agree about that.

Actually my point was descriptive, not prescriptive.

On 5/21/2020 at 11:25 AM, Nescio said:

I gather you're advocating constant line thicknesses for different footprints? That would be only doable if there were separate selection textures for each footprint size. Given that all animals have different footprints, as do ship, siege, and trader actors, I don't think that's a good idea.

Here is a table with animal footprints:

    128x256                              : width × depth ; proportional line thickness
chicken                                  :   0.9 ×   1.8 ;   3
fox, *piglet*, *rabbit*                  :   1   ×   2   ;   3.333
*peacock*                                :   1.1 ×   2.2 ;   3.667
goat                                     :   1.3 ×   2.6 ;   4.333
dog, sheep, wolf                         :   1.4 ×   2.8 ;   4.667
gazelle                                  :   1.5 ×   3.0 ;   5
deer, elephant infants                   :   1.7 ×   3.4 ;   5.667
cattle, giraffe infant, zebra            :   1.9 ×   3.8 ;   6.333
bear, *boar*, lion                       :   2   ×   4   ;   6.667
donkey, horse, muskox, tiger, wildebeest :   2.1 ×   4.2 ;   7
dromedary camel                          :   2.5 ×   5   ;   8.333
white rhinoceros                         :   2.8 ×   5.6 ;   9.333
*hippopotamus*                           :   3   ×   6   ;  10
walrus                                   :   3.2 ×   6.4 ;  10.667
giraffe                                  :   3.3 ×   6.6 ;  11
African forest elephant                  :   3.5 ×   7   ;  11.667
Asian elephant                           :   4   ×   8   ;  13.333
African bush elephant                    :   4.6 ×   9.2 ;  15.333

    128x512                              : width × depth ; proportional line thickness
great white shark                        :   2   ×   8   ;    6.667
*Nile crocodile*                         :   3   ×  12   ;   10
humpback whale                           :   4   ×  16   ;   13.333
fin whale                                :   5   ×  20   ;   16.667

** means assuming D2721 is committed

I count 20 different footprint sizes, which means at least that many selection textures versions need to be made if you want a constant line thickness in game.

4 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

It's not my subjective point of view, it's how it was planed and done: a rectangle texture and a circular texture were generated for each rectangle footprint width and depth and each circle footprint radius (rounded to the closest power of 2).

You present it as a fact; I'm unsure what you're exactly referring to. Could you clarify, especially what was done and when?

4 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

Also my personal taste is more for fancier texture but plain ones work very badly with the quad thing.

What do you mean with “fancier texture”? Something like this:

ellipse.png.45f5061531a2944dc9bff587e3bd4f18.png or this: circled_dodecagram.png.dbb419f36c9ba1e1818da2a421d0cfb5.png

4 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

Nice I would appreciate you personal taste about that (by entity type and footprint type) to have a proper consistent set.

Personally I like complex shapes and elaborate patterns. However, in my personal experience (I tend to play maximally zoomed out), simpler is clearer and better, because the purpose of selection shapes is to easily identify different entities. You can find my personal take in my 0abc mod, which is not exactly the same as my personal recommendation for 0 A.D., i.e. D2503.

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14 hours ago, Nescio said:

Actually my point was descriptive, not prescriptive.

Here is a table with animal footprints:


    128x256                              : width × depth ; proportional line thickness
chicken                                  :   0.9 ×   1.8 ;   3
fox, *piglet*, *rabbit*                  :   1   ×   2   ;   3.333
*peacock*                                :   1.1 ×   2.2 ;   3.667
goat                                     :   1.3 ×   2.6 ;   4.333
dog, sheep, wolf                         :   1.4 ×   2.8 ;   4.667
gazelle                                  :   1.5 ×   3.0 ;   5
deer, elephant infants                   :   1.7 ×   3.4 ;   5.667
cattle, giraffe infant, zebra            :   1.9 ×   3.8 ;   6.333
bear, *boar*, lion                       :   2   ×   4   ;   6.667
donkey, horse, muskox, tiger, wildebeest :   2.1 ×   4.2 ;   7
dromedary camel                          :   2.5 ×   5   ;   8.333
white rhinoceros                         :   2.8 ×   5.6 ;   9.333
*hippopotamus*                           :   3   ×   6   ;  10
walrus                                   :   3.2 ×   6.4 ;  10.667
giraffe                                  :   3.3 ×   6.6 ;  11
African forest elephant                  :   3.5 ×   7   ;  11.667
Asian elephant                           :   4   ×   8   ;  13.333
African bush elephant                    :   4.6 ×   9.2 ;  15.333

    128x512                              : width × depth ; proportional line thickness
great white shark                        :   2   ×   8   ;    6.667
*Nile crocodile*                         :   3   ×  12   ;   10
humpback whale                           :   4   ×  16   ;   13.333
fin whale                                :   5   ×  20   ;   16.667

** means assuming D2721 is committed

I count 20 different footprint sizes, which means at least that many selection textures versions need to be made if you want a constant line thickness in game.

Let's use filled texture then :-)

More seriously, that's not an issue to have so much texture in the repo (some could even be merged together), the only potential issue is to load too much texture (but those ones are probably nothing compared to all art stuff).

By the way, are those 0.1 differences (between walrus and giraffe for example) really visible? (even more when we know that those units are just circle or axis orientated square of radius or half size 0.8 in many other parts of the game?). Also the rectangular footprints need to be seriously reviewed, I had bring a list above.

14 hours ago, Nescio said:

You present it as a fact; I'm unsure what you're exactly referring to. Could you clarify, especially what was done and when?

ah indeed, that was my starting point of the discussion.

14 hours ago, Nescio said:

What do you mean with “fancier texture”? Something like this:

ellipse.png.45f5061531a2944dc9bff587e3bd4f18.png or this: circled_dodecagram.png.dbb419f36c9ba1e1818da2a421d0cfb5.png

 

Nice! (is there a name for the second one?)

 

67516.jpg

 

718859-931424_20060320_001.jpg

 

cdc679bebbe282e170ab6fe0dca8445e4.jpg

 

3-mex-start.jpg

 

fancyselectedunits_1024x455.jpg

 

The last one is strangely my favourite one! (finally not so fancy)

 

14 hours ago, Nescio said:

Personally I like complex shapes and elaborate patterns. However, in my personal experience (I tend to play maximally zoomed out), simpler is clearer and better, because the purpose of selection shapes is to easily identify different entities. You can find my personal take in my 0abc mod, which is not exactly the same as my personal recommendation for 0 A.D., i.e. D2503.

Anyway, while line overlay works almost fine, quad ones are a bit annoying right now. So indeed simpler is better.

Sadly I don't have an a23 public mod available (and I am lazy to get one) so I can't parse the 0abc a23 mod :/

I overlooked at D2503, that's seems clearly more consistent (for example having the same shape for boltshooter and stonethrower). Also a proper review would have pointed out that it's a bad idea to delete the actor texture.

-

Well I have all the answers I needed.

Thanks for the exchange!

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2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

Also a proper review would have pointed out that it's a bad idea to delete the actor texture.

Why? I did a grep in the simulation folder, and neither 'actor_mask' nor 'actor.png' showed up.

2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

By the way, are those 0.1 differences (between walrus and giraffe for example) really visible?

I don't know for sure. I assume those values were introduced for a reason. For me, though, multiples of 0.5 are good enough.

2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

(even more when we know that those units are just circle or axis orientated square of radius or half size 0.8 in many other parts of the game?). Also the rectangular footprints need to be seriously reviewed, I had bring a list above.

What do you mean exactly?

2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

Sadly I don't have an a23 public mod available (and I am lazy to get one) so I can't parse the 0abc a23 mod :/

I understand, but you can browse the mod files on github. :)

2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

Nice! (is there a name for the second one?)

It's basically a regular dodecagram {12/5} in a circle, hence why I named it `circled_dodecagram`; you can find it, along with several other, similar shapes, under here.

2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

The last one is strangely my favourite one! (finally not so fancy)

An octogonal shape is fairly easy to write, e.g. last_octagon.svg.

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1 hour ago, Nescio said:

Why? I did a grep in the simulation folder, and neither 'actor_mask' nor 'actor.png' showed up.

It's referenced in source :)

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4 hours ago, Nescio said:

Why? I did a grep in the simulation folder, and neither 'actor_mask' nor 'actor.png' showed up.

it's the default selection texture for actors in atlas.

4 hours ago, Nescio said:

I don't know for sure. I assume those values were introduced for a reason. For me, though, multiples of 0.5 are good enough.

I guess a zoologist wanted some values or something like that. Multiples of 0.5 sounds good enough for me too.

4 hours ago, Nescio said:

I understand, but you can browse the mod files on github. :)

You can't imagine how lazy I am right now!

4 hours ago, Nescio said:

It's basically a regular dodecagram {12/5} in a circle, hence why I named it `circled_dodecagram`; you can find it, along with several other, similar shapes, under here.

Thanks!

4 hours ago, Nescio said:

An octogonal shape is fairly easy to write, e.g. last_octagon.svg.

Thanks again!

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Part of the problem with "fancier" selection shapes is that you tend to have to use a larger footprint size for the fancy texture to stand out and be seen. Now, in other games this isn't a problem, but with 0ad footprint does double duty as the entity's combat hitbox. I found this out when I did my tests for a super fancy selection ring for the temple, to show its faith healing range. Every projectile that fell within the radius of that footprint registered as a hit on the temple. I had to remove the awesome fancy footprint texture as a consequence. 

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For your information, D2503 has been committed as rP23703 and rP23704 (thank you, @Stan`), which means selection shapes are now named differently, so you'll probably have to update your mod, @wowgetoffyourcellphone. Other mods should be fine.

On 5/22/2020 at 7:33 PM, Nescio said:

Here is a table with animal footprints:

I see only now I forgot to add the selection texture line thickness required for constant line thickness (units with smaller footprints need thicker lines), so here's the table again, @fatherbushido, with an additional column:

    128x256                              : width × depth ; proportional ; required for constant line thickness
chicken                                  :   0.9 ×   1.8 ;   3     ; 33.333
fox, *piglet*, *rabbit*                  :   1   ×   2   ;   3.333 ; 30
*peacock*                                :   1.1 ×   2.2 ;   3.667 ; 27.273
goat                                     :   1.3 ×   2.6 ;   4.333 ; 23.077
dog, sheep, wolf                         :   1.4 ×   2.8 ;   4.667 ; 21.429
gazelle                                  :   1.5 ×   3.0 ;   5     ; 20
deer, elephant infants                   :   1.7 ×   3.4 ;   5.667 ; 17.647
cattle, giraffe infant, zebra            :   1.9 ×   3.8 ;   6.333 ; 15.789
bear, *boar*, lion                       :   2   ×   4   ;   6.667 ; 15
donkey, horse, muskox, tiger, wildebeest :   2.1 ×   4.2 ;   7     ; 14.286
dromedary camel                          :   2.5 ×   5   ;   8.333 ; 12
white rhinoceros                         :   2.8 ×   5.6 ;   9.333 ; 10.714
*hippopotamus*                           :   3   ×   6   ;  10     ; 10
walrus                                   :   3.2 ×   6.4 ;  10.667 ;  9.375
giraffe                                  :   3.3 ×   6.6 ;  11     ;  9.091
African forest elephant                  :   3.5 ×   7   ;  11.667 ;  8.571
Asian elephant                           :   4   ×   8   ;  13.333 ;  7.5
African bush elephant                    :   4.6 ×   9.2 ;  15.333 ;  6.522

    128x512                              : width × depth ; proportional ; required for constant line thickness
great white shark                        :   2   ×   8   ;    6.667 ; 15
*Nile crocodile*                         :   3   ×  12   ;   10     ; 10
humpback whale                           :   4   ×  16   ;   13.333 ;  7.5
fin whale                                :   5   ×  20   ;   16.667 ;  6
Edited by Nescio
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