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nonesense civ bonus

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It's called "Factions Counter Some Factions while Being Countered by Other Factions"

At least you should've stated WHY you think it's nonesense.

I would like to know myself: Are the Romans the natural counter to Greeks?

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I'd personally say it's rubbish.  It provides no interesting strategic options because it's factions counter some factions while being countered by other factions.  There's a flat out buff or nerf that the player has no way to take advantage of except during those specific match-ups.  

I personally wouldn't say that Romans were that case.  Although the Roman military was exceptional, much of its success was based around its ability to take advantage of the diplomatic turmoil in Greece, leading to its ability to defeat them in detail by and large.  

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I don't play multiplayer often, but while this probably work on teams vs teams, I imagine if I play Macedonian 1v1 I'm pretty sure the opponent would choose Roman, and then I'd change it to other faction that counters Roman... Shouldn't there be any other buff to balance it? Like -5% attack but +5% defense or something? This sounds like a cheap way to balance factions.

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1 minute ago, azayrahmad said:

I don't play multiplayer often, but while this probably work on teams vs teams, I imagine if I play Macedonian 1v1 I'm pretty sure the opponent would choose Roman, and then I'd change it to other faction that counters Roman... Shouldn't there be any other buff to balance it? Like -5% attack but +5% defense or something? This sounds like a cheap way to balance factions.

Yes, must be something related to armor or style of army composition.

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Hmm, I could see this kind of thing being better represented in the hero bonuses or auras (say, the Alexander hero might give an extra buff against Persian units for obvious historical reasons). I don't think civ specific buffs or penalties are "cheap" per se, but they need to be thought about more and a blanket one like the one in OP is probably not the way to go. Better to give it to a specific type or unit or hero or something, not the whole civ. (Everyone might be tired of me referencing Delenda Est, but here it goes), in Delenda Est, Spartiate champions get an extra bonus vs. non-Greek civs, while the Theban Sacred Band get an extra bonus vs. Greek civs. It's specific to a unit type and not a civ-wide bonus. To be honest, I might remove these bonuses, but they aren't without some kind of thought and they aren't blanket bonuses. :) 

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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7 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Everyone might be tired of me referencing Delenda Est, but here it goes

As long as you are not trolling, and being somewhat constructive it's all good :)

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5 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

it was in game around 2012.

I wonder why it was removed from the game but not in the civ description, that makes things not easy for new players

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14 minutes ago, Feldfeld said:

I wonder why it was removed from the game but not in the civ description, that makes things not easy for new players

Well I guess people forgot about it and it was never created as ticket...

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1 hour ago, Feldfeld said:

I wonder why it was removed from the game but not in the civ description, that makes things not easy for new players

Most of the civ info page content is what was planed at some point (developed or not). The only part which was updated was the team bonuses part iirc.

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Apart from that from a game design point of view, I don't find that kind of bonuses stupid if one wants hard counters.

There are mainly two ways to do things:

- emergent behaviors with lot of factors (an abstract game physic)

- full gameplay control with hard counters

My personal preference is the first one but both are ok. Just coherence is needed.

If one choose the second part, which is sometimes the cleaner/easiest for balancing, especially for an rts, you just have to have a set of rules. No stats are really actually needed (or a little set). That's what are hard counters. In that context, the civ counters perfectly fit. To be more clear: you need only one stat: health and then you have a set of bonus of units against units (by type or by civ). Doing that way, you have a full control of the balance and the gameplay.

 

Edited by fatherbushido
typos
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9 hours ago, fatherbushido said:

If one choose the second part, which is sometimes the cleaner/easiest for balancing, especially for an rts, you just have to have a set of rules. No stats are really actually needed (or a little set). That's what are hard counters. In that context, the civ counters perfectly fit. To be more clear: you need only one stat: health and then you have a set of bonus of units against units (by type or by civ). Doing that way, you have a full control of the balance and the gameplay.

 

Indeed. You'd just need one damage type and one armor type (for blacksmith techs) and then balance everything with attack bonuses. 

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