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8 basic spearmen and 12 javelineers destroyed seven fanatics, with all javelineers and 3 spearmen remaining. It took 5 minutes to setup the demo.

If the purpose of the units is to counter cav, then why don't just nerf a little their damage against infantry?

You don't have enough melee. You also didn't snipe with those ranged units. Otherwise, it's an easy win for CS.

video, random stuff, no micro, just think what you want, this unit is a counter of cav, you can tell me i don"t have enough melee, it true, but anyway , fanatic run faster and they can pick the moment to fight (as cav) 1) One example with not bad placement for blue : 5 fanatic = 600 food 500 wood *** high speed, not able to pick ressource, big counter of cav 10 crossbow = 500 food 500 wood + 3 sperman = 150food 150 wood = 650 food 650 wood *** capacity to collect ressource / take more spot in house / feel good with 13 units to counter 5 units made for counter cav video 2) 5 fanatic = 600 food 500 wood 9 skirmish = 450 food 450 wood + 2 sperman = 100 food + 100 wood = 550 food 550 wood video 3) 20 archers + 3 spermen vs 8 fanatic = loose 1150 food 1150 wood vs 960 food 800 wood 8 champion infantery sword gauls win also (only 3 remains) 2.mp4 1.mp4 3.mp4

Its not about metal. Its about a way to stop fanatics spam in p2. Locking them in p2 and unlocking in p3 is other way to stop abusing fanatics in p2 too. Without requiring metal for them.

Because the replays have no title its hard to find them. I have to wait for new games then i save them. After a while i share them here

Then clearly you have not played much multiplayer, because it is has been done and is easy to pull off given sufficient time and resources, especially in a team game setting. Also, again, Fanatics are naked, slapping on some blacksmith upgrades does not change that fact, any regular infantry champion will kill them easy in melee combat, any ranged unit with upgrades will kill them easily, frankly even just having stone walls is enough. so I fail to see the argument when the game has multiple options to deal with them.

I don't know about others, but I really want to see those games where fanatics trash everything. Like truly.

- fanatics are already pretty expensive - and they have already low armor so they are kinda vulnerable to arrows - it should be easy to have more military pop with CS because they are much cheaper and they can collect. - when you defend and kill fanatics, you get at least some loot ;-) I guess javs can collect loot almost as fast as resources. - ranged cavalry is faster than fanatics, so they can kite them - if the enemy goes for fanatics he will be weaker while beginning this, so he can be attacked at that moment

@Fabiusare you playing against AI? I never heard any multiplayer producing 100 champ cavalry. Also on that particular I spectated no one had ever stopped Aslans menacing fanatics. Not Artric, not wolf not Mcaurell. And JC aka Docorgans who almost become cosmic looked good. With fully upgraded fanatics from the blacksmith who can stop it? Being a bit realistic adds playability. It adds more strategy.

Still slower with the extra upgrade. But it’s pretty close. And, all upgrades have cost. Any player going for fana will get all food/wood upgrades. They’ll also get at least some metal upgrades. Games go long enough that you need to get the upgrade and if the game is won or loss before the upgrade it’ll have nothing to do with how strong fana are

I like this too, but maybe we should up the cost ? or delete the armor piercing for be sensible to arrow, building and CS ? 1)If you build citizen soldiers to counter fanatic soldiers, you'll need more military pop than them to defend yourself. When you defend, you don't reap any rewards. You fall behind even if you don't lose units. You can't do the same thing to your enemy because you don't have any fast-running units (and there's no way you're building cavalry to play the same strategy). I don't see how you can have a good eco for beat the gaul using good the fanatic.

- a single match proves nothing - yes, fanatics are too weak to require metal. It's good that the game has a champion unit which doesnt cost metal. - it's good that many units and buildings don't require metal, it increases playability of 0ad. Why should it be overly realistic...

it's in the name, they are "naked" ,emphasis on that word, Fanatics, they run around with no clothing or armour, just a shield, and kill hard and fast until they get wrecked by a hobnailed boot to the crotch and proper application of blunt/pointed/bladed weapon by a properly clothed and armoured infantryman. Any competent player with map knowledge can counter a fanatic raid with a mixed citizen force of ranged and melee infantry. Oh and your eco will probably be slower and handicapped cause food and wood are vital for eco expansion in first and second phases and you would have spent it all to make fanatics. Also fighting spearman with cavalry is silly unless they are super heavy like Selucids and even then its not a good idea. The main reason cav is a menace is due to its speed, the secondary one being that they have solid stats, you can pick your fights and disengage much more freely, it is the perfect tool to divide and conquer and your opponent. And yes I unapologetically murder my opponents with consular guard at every opportunity

yes because again the spearman are suppose to turn into the swordmen. But its something i can talk to the gang about. The Elite level spearman "Third Liners/Triārius" appear in p2 from the camps. But if all the regular spearman were replaced by them in p2 like reforms it might be a little too strong. but thank you both @Gurken Khan and @Deicide4u I appreciate the ideas. Thats what's nice about this game and forum!

Why don't you just "replace" the basic spearman with your elite one in the Town phase? Check how Marian reforms replace Roman units, maybe you can do it similarly? No need to upgrade the barracks just to replace the unit roster.

Did you look at how tower upgrades are coded?

no option for that yet

So it doesn't sound like it will be possible to do what i want with buildings. The above "coding" works, but you can still build the other baracks and p1 and then they just take no time to upgrade in p2. But again if someone knows another way please let me know! Another thought is can you restrict a unit to a certian phase, like rome spearman can only be trained in p1? Using "only" "all" in requirements? I will have to play around with that. But as always any community ideas are always appreciated!

Our mod tries to represent the civs a little more historically but still kinda of within the time from of thhe game. There is a p4 (empire phase) for Rome, and now we are trying to work on "early republic" as p1 and then p2-p3 sorta of what the base game mostly covers.

Please keep this thread going, it keeps on giving. Comedy gold.

@Player of 0ADwhy don’t you accept the challenge? I’m not defending Reza but if you accept the challenge it might show win or lose the need to rebalance or not. With CS and women just gather food and wood aslan do is send only fanatics and it doesn’t matter if they die because there will always be waves coming back over. Im sure this strategy may not work/win on 1v1 all the time but its going to be annoying on team games. This will also show there is no need of CS if a faction has this type of warrior not needing extra resources like metal. Since most of the players commenting here disagree with Reza would it hurt to rebalance fanatics requiring metal? Nevertheless in this game all entities should require metal from women to elite units to buildings. Literally how can they work without metal?

Please share some replays, otherwise it's not much use complaining.

On Ubuntu you likely use Gnome, then the window manager should be mutter, session type is either X11 or Wayland and sdl version you can get by running "apt show libsdl2" in terminal. I remembered a mutter bug wrt confinement region https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/2740 which is still open, so yes this might be the reason.