Corrals almost useless in P1 and P2

[Player of 0AD]

In A25, Corrals could be useful sometimes in phases 1 and 2, and in general a good option in phase 3. But then the developers decided to nerf them even more: Now they cannot produce cows before p3, and no pigs before p2. This makes corrals almost useless in p1 and p2. What about buffing them? One could think about simplyfying: Removing  all animals except one type of cow per civ - always producable. And one could think about reducing the train time of the cows and test this in multiplayer matches.

Corrals should be so viable that a player could decide if he goes for them or for fields.

[ChronA]

Gameplay wise, what differentiates corrals from farms? I've never given them much thought personally, but presumably the player gets something like 2-10 times more resource generation per unit time, and a hugely reduced territory footprint, and  in exchange for much more micromanagement.

The first thing to ask is whether corral management represents a distinctly fun skill challenge. Is it engaging? Does it reward the player's attention in a different way from farming?

Secondly does it create a distinct set of strategic considerations? Like could provide players with  reduced territory footprint with a comeback mechanic? A way to get food from land that is unavailable for farming (because of terrain, or auras, or threat of attack)? Maybe it makes cavalry more cost effective by allowing them to participate in food generation?

If the answer to both these questions is no, the feature should be cut. Otherwise any buffs should ideally be concentrated on intensifying these differentiators. 

 

[alre]

the strategic difference is that corrals are a long term strategy, because they require more resources and micro for the build up, while farms are faster and immediately productive, but less efficient in the long run.

I don't love how corrals work, but they used to be fun sometimes. In A24 I used corrals a lot.

[Dakara]

1 hour ago, ChronA said:

Gameplay wise, what differentiates corrals from farms? I've never given them much thought personally, but presumably the player gets something like 2-10 times more resource generation per unit time, and a hugely reduced territory footprint, and  in exchange for much more micromanagement.

The first thing to ask is whether corral management represents a distinctly fun skill challenge. Is it engaging? Does it reward the player's attention in a different way from farming?

Secondly does it create a distinct set of strategic considerations? Like could provide players with  reduced territory footprint with a comeback mechanic? A way to get food from land that is unavailable for farming (because of terrain, or auras, or threat of attack)? Maybe it makes cavalry more cost effective by allowing them to participate in food generation?

If the answer to both these questions is no, the feature should be cut. Otherwise any buffs should ideally be concentrated on intensifying these differentiators. 

 

with auto que the corral don't need lot of micro. Except if you fail. It ok so.

And you don't need 35/50 womans 

You can also mix field and corall.. 

im thinking corral is good and don't need change. No meta but can be used. 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I thought corrals were fine in a25 and there really was no need to limit cows to p3. With autoqueue, I think the challenge in corrals is getting the right ratio of horses to corrals, if you have a big enough steady state gain in cow numbers then you can actually be losing food, and on the opposite end, it can be very annoying to re-task horses onto corrals. I agree with @Dakara that the best solution probably is to mix farms and corrals so that there is at least some steady component to food income.

I think there is definitely gameplay benefit to having corral food eco as a viable, but non-meta, option. On one hand you have more population efficient food eco that can fight if need be, and on the other hand it can be disrupted by sudden large expenditures of food. 

[chrstgtr]

5 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

In A25, Corrals could be useful sometimes in phases 1 and 2, and in general a good option in phase 3. But then the developers decided to nerf them even more: Now they cannot produce cows before p3, and no pigs before p2. This makes corrals almost useless in p1 and p2. What about buffing them? One could think about simplyfying: Removing  all animals except one type of cow per civ - always producable. And one could think about reducing the train time of the cows and test this in multiplayer matches.

Corrals should be so viable that a player could decide if he goes for them or for fields.

Personally, I like having the option to train animals that produce quicker and cost less, especially in p1. So, I wouldn’t delete all the animal types. 

Agree on reducing train time. But this will be tricky. 

I don’t care one way or other on getting rid of phase requirements for animal types. Players usually can’t afford cows in early game. 

I think we should also experiment with a bigger buff: decreasing the cost of animals and/or increasing the amount of food that each animal let’s you collect. Tying up a bunch of your food in corrals really slows you down in early/mid game. 

[Darkcity]

10 hours ago, chrstgtr said:

Players usually can’t afford cows in early game. 

Don't say that. I had perfect corral only strategy in a25. Now in a26; it's very slow and hard to pull off all becasue cows are not availble in p1.

Besides if they are not affordable in P1 then we can add them back in p1, so, people can decide if they want to train or not.

Becasue other animal food is collect so fast then you need too many corral to sustain food eco with corral but cows you can suatain with less corrals hence more useful. Honestly I didn't understand the logic behind removing cows from p1.

[chrstgtr]

2 hours ago, Darkcity said:

Don't say that. I had perfect corral only strategy in a25. Now in a26; it's very slow and hard to pull off all becasue cows are not availble in p1.

Besides if they are not affordable in P1 then we can add them back in p1, so, people can decide if they want to train or not.

Becasue other animal food is collect so fast then you need too many corral to sustain food eco with corral but cows you can suatain with less corrals hence more useful. Honestly I didn't understand the logic behind removing cows from p1.

Fine. Like I said above, I don't care either way. 

[leopard]

may be report to community mod devs

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/issues/5

Edited November 23, 2022 by leopard