leopard Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, Bellaz89 said: Maybe they should win an SCII DreamHack or a GSL competition. In that case I might admire or respect them for their superior game ability LOL Exactly! Even then why should we respect a person with this kind of attitude? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellaz89 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, leopard said: Exactly! Even then why should we respect a person with this kind of attitude? You are right. I have to say that players that win such kind of competitions are truly professionals that are highly disciplined with out-of-mind APMs . So, people that waste in-game keystrokes on insults and are not capable of controlling themselves at the very basic level have no chance in said tournaments. Probably they don't even have the chance to be qualified. Therefore I would say I am not much worried by the eventuality. Edited December 13, 2022 by Bellaz89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossenburg Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 How about a standalone thread for posting screenshots of in-game toxicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shft Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 it's funny reading all you cry, that's all you can do, instead of crying you could all focus on improving your gameplay but you choose not to, you don't realise you are the problem lol, just because it's me vs you guys doesn't mean you are in the right, it just means that noob players outnumber the strong players in 0ad. And if you are going to post any screenshots of in game toxicity, better to include all chat rather than cutting out the bits you want so you can hide certain things, of course you won't do that. noobs will stick up for other noobs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellaz89 Posted December 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 51 minutes ago, rossenburg said: How about a standalone thread for posting screenshots of in-game toxicity. Might be an idea, but all players, including the ones that are not registered in the forum should be aware of that IMHO. Screenshots might be useful but at the same time might be dangerous and be abused since they lack the whole context of the discussion. e.g. Player 1 insulting player 2 Player 2 insulting player 1 back Player 1 taking a screenshot of player 2 in-game discussion. Previous in-game messages of player 2 are not displayed. Now player 2 get all the blame even if player 1 started insulting player 2 + Someone might do fake screenshots So I would be extremely careful in how these screenshots get evaluated. I am not even sure a standalone thread should be public at all wrt. sending the screenshots directly to moderators. Just first naive thoughts about that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grapjas Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, shft said: it's funny reading all you cry, that's all you can do, instead of crying you could all focus on improving your gameplay but you choose not to, you don't realise you are the problem lol, just because it's me vs you guys doesn't mean you are in the right, it just means that noob players outnumber the strong players in 0ad. And if you are going to post any screenshots of in game toxicity, better to include all chat rather than cutting out the bits you want so you can hide certain things, of course you won't do that. noobs will stick up for other noobs Doesn't really change the fact you have been extremely vulgar and toxic judging by the screenshots. You should just man up and apologize and "improve" on your social skills, which is far more important than any game skill. I haven't seen you once take responsibility of the things you have said, but rather take your time to point fingers at others and trying to talk your way out of it. Which also shows how insensitive and inconsiderate you are about other peoples feelings. I think the insulted deserves some leeway when reaching its breaking point and making comments back to the insulter, although it not being ideal. But theres a fat chance you are here to troll, but you can certainly prove me wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 lmao I don't think being better than other players is an excuse to insult them. That being said you also launch tirades against players better than you after you intentionally sabotage your own team. It seems you have an unstoppable urge to feel superior to other players and I think this is the problem at its core. My advice would be, to quote Ol' Teddy: "speak softly and carry a big stick". In this case, the big stick is your skill, and speaking softly is your treatment of worse players. Keep in mind there are many players who adhere to this: basically everyone except a few players that the forum is about. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse_Harold Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) @shftThanks for posting here. It took courage to do that. You've explained some of your perspective in this issue. I can see that leopard and wang_wei aren't being honest when they say they're not doing anything wrong. They did admit to insulting you at least once. Also, you're not being honest when you say that all you've done is criticize unskilled players, tell them how to improve, then they insult you and want to ban you from their games. We can control our own behavior, but we can't control the behavior of others. I see the three of you blaming others for your own behavior. That's not being honest, and it's not going to help us move toward a resolution of the conflict. Shyft_Sierra, if you're extremely motivated to help newbies, then you can do it in a respectful manner with zero insults. You can think of yourself as a Buddhist monk who has eternal patience and composure and is gradually teaching newer players in an extremely respectful manner how to reach Zen. I say that you are allowed to change your conduct in-game in the future to be respectful. And, I hope that leopard and wang_wei will agree. Edited December 13, 2022 by Norse_Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossenburg Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Bellaz89 said: Might be an idea, but all players, including the ones that are not registered in the forum should be aware of that IMHO. Screenshots might be useful but at the same time might be dangerous and be abused since they lack the whole context of the discussion. e.g. Player 1 insulting player 2 Player 2 insulting player 1 back Player 1 taking a screenshot of player 2 in-game discussion. Previous in-game messages of player 2 are not displayed. Now player 2 get all the blame even if player 1 started insulting player 2 + Someone might do fake screenshots So I would be extremely careful in how these screenshots get evaluated. I am not even sure a standalone thread should be public at all wrt. sending the screenshots directly to moderators. Just first naive thoughts about that i agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossenburg Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, Norse_Harold said: Shyft_Sierra, if you're extremely motivated to help newbies, then you can do it in a respectful manner with zero insults. once again, i agree. You could feel the supremacy in his comments. Being good doesn't mean stumble on bad players. If a player is in your team and not playing well, there are better ways to let the person know instead of insulting. I completely understand where you are coming from @shft. A little dip of politeness could change everything when trying to talk to a player that's playing bad in your team. Simple Politeness Theory negative politeness strategies: performed to avoid offense through deference ( in most cases this is you) positive politeness strategies: performed to avoid offense by emphasizing friendliness. Most players will gladly listen to you if you talk to them in the right way. Like the attachment above: as far as the people you are dealing with are okay with it, nobody will stop you. When a player is not okay with it , thats when to limit it. After all nobody is trying to change your behaviour. The main aim is protecting the community itself cause there are children 13 and below who also play the game 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse_Harold Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, rossenburg said: After all nobody is trying to change your behaviour. I'm hopeful that Shyft_Sierra is trying to change his own behavior. And, the same for leopard, wang_wei and Marre-Vrickad. Edited December 13, 2022 by Norse_Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopard Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: I can see that leopard and wang_wei aren't being honest when they say they're not doing anything wrong I never said I am not doing anything wrong here, I know my words are obscene and yet I don't repent, because I told this to shyft_sierra and he/she deserves that kind of treatment. 1 hour ago, rossenburg said: I completely understand where you are coming from do you know what these self proclaimed OP player do when they get rushed bad and feel they cannot shine in the game they quit like cowards and leave the team in an impossible to win situation even when someone in the team can win the game for the team. This dude is not very OP compared to others they just don't have anything to do in life other than playing video games. so he get to play a lot of games and be the pet of many regular players, he don't insult his backers, so they let this idiot to play every game with them. please don't assume this dude is good for their team, this one is completely disturbing if he is in team also believe me you will totally hate the dev who put the flare feature . MORONS WHO ASK OTHER PLAYERS TO DELETE GAME IS NOT UNIQUE TO ZERO AD They are everywhere in every gaming community for example so shyft_sierra is a not very unique idiot that we should give much attention to. 51 minutes ago, Norse_Harold said: I'm hopeful that Shyft_Sierra is trying to change his own behavior. I have no hope in this and you should not too. 2 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: It took courage to do that wait a minute, this dude insult other players and their family members and says he fk their mothers, are you still thinking this is an innocent little poor fellow who need courage to come here and write insults on people who try to expose this dude? are you blind or can you not understand the insults he shoots even in this forum. forgive me if I offend you my English vocabulary is limited to explain a scoundrel to you. 2 hours ago, shft said: it's funny reading all you cry, see this dude is trolling everyone participating here. he think this is very funny and enjoying like he is in an amusement park. 2 hours ago, shft said: nstead of crying you could all focus on improving your gameplay but you choose not to, you don't realise you are the problem lol yes we are the problematic people here look at this a cheerleader Edited December 13, 2022 by leopard 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real_tabasco_sauce Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 Well I guess its hard to communicate laughing at versus laughing in agreement via emoji. The bottom line is repeat offenders of racism, toxicity, and hate speech should be banned, and players should be able to mute others as they wish. More minor offenses can have some other more minor penalty. It is evident in screenshots and in this very discussion that there are minor offenders and very major offenders. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wang_wei Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: Shyft_Sierra told Stan privately that wang_wei verbally abused him, apparently in-game, at some point. It was not necessarily recent. So a player like Shyft_Sierra, with all those mentioned behavior, sends "a private message to Stan that wang_wei verbally abused him", is your argument. Did that happen last couple weeks? If so, it's because I do not let him play in my games. 18 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: Is he still doing this? I thought that all of his lobby accounts were banned already and he hasn't created new ones. Please tell lobby moderators the names of any new accounts that he tries to create Haven't played for some days. If you mean the last 5 days, no, since I have not logged in lobby (primarily because of attitudes like this person's). But if you mean last couple of months, yeah, he has been doing it constantly. 18 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: So you have verbally abused him. If we expect him to stop the abuse then the least we can do is lead by example and stop verbally abusing him, even in retaliation. It's a team effort. We either succeed together or we fail together. No. You are just trying to conclude this to get this closed by "issuing a warning". Not more than any other player has done when replying to his insults I will send a message to Stan now in the lobby to tell him I have not verbally abused Shyft_Sierra (is there even a thing of lobby private messages for real?!). Then I guess we ll be fine with the specific mindset. That's all for me regarding this thread. See you (probably) in game PS: I have been playing this game since @elexis and @Hannibal_Barca times (maybe before 2016). This coincident of getting a "private message" about verbal abuse now seems a bit abnormal, doesn't it Edited December 13, 2022 by wang_wei 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wang_wei Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Norse_Harold said: I can see that leopard and wang_wei aren't being honest when they say they're not doing anything wrong Dude, I never said I never did nothing wrong. Provide the quote of me doing so (doesn't exist - coming back to last message's conclusion, cu in game, probably) Edited December 13, 2022 by wang_wei 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shft Posted December 15, 2022 Report Share Posted December 15, 2022 you are all crazy and deluded, stuck in your own way of thinking. You tell me to help newbies and you don't think i've tried doing that already? I'm the most vocal in chats so i always try to talk and offer advice/help in games, more than all of you. But if noobs don't want to listen or tell me to be quiet/don't spam chat when i try to help them, that's when i start insulting. So don't think other players are innocent. I said this before, noobs are the problem, i'm only the symptom. If noobs listen then toxicity won't exist. You will all deny what you did wrong and just support eachother, and that is what you will continue to do. I'm no longer upset that i've been banned, i can still play this game if i want to but it's getting boring for me dealing with noobs every game and with morons like you constantly antagonising me. I'm above you guys, not only in skill but i take accountability for what i did wrong, you simply can not. For some reason, you think i'm only being toxic if a player is a noob and don't understand they don't listen to advice or try to be a team player. I don't need to read any of the things you comment here because it will always be the same nonsense, crying without taking any accountability. leopard you have serious issues, you are blinded by hate if you think i'm average player, you are one of the worst players in this game and that is not an exaggeration. I can beat every player on this thread except vinme in 1 vs 1 consistently. Don't bark like a dog, you are a weasel who has nothing to offer other than trolling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted December 15, 2022 Report Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) Case closed. I am pretty sure @shft has demonstrated the problem perfectly to the necessary people in these forum posts. I don't see any need for more comments. Edited December 15, 2022 by BreakfastBurrito_007 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse_Harold Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) Attention: Shyft is still banned. Please do not allow him to join your games until the ban is lifted. Today Shyft joined the lobby as "tuna.salad". Contrary to what he is saying, his ban is still in effect. I have been in communication with Shyft to explain how he can do restorative justice in order to get unbanned after in-game mute functionality is added in the base game. Discussion of how to do restorative justice community service work went well for a while. I listed these ideas for restitution work: Technical support for users, software development or modding work to fulfill requests of those who were damaged Write lengthy letters of apology and transparency to those damaged Create advertisement videos for WFG Create promotional podcasts or videos for WFG Create artwork for WFG Donate to WFG Write text documents, for example for the encyclopedia feature that is being discussed on the forum Digital image editing Video editing Logo design Promotional marketing Conduct surveys and do canvassing Report bugs Help improve game balance through suggestions and testing Test SVN versions Test experimental features Shyft said that he was considering writing a letter of apology and transparency and doing some paper-based artwork for the 0 A.D community. We discussed why Shyft says he gets angry and insults people , what the rules state about pejoratives and profanity, some background on opinions about a generally accepted moral code, what would be suggested for inclusion in a letter of apology and transparency, etc. Shyft stated that he gets angry when players do not communicate during team games. We can discuss how the community can work on solving these types of problems, but it is not a prerequisite for Shyft's restorative justice process. At the end of the conversation, Shyft decided to demand a change to the policy regarding the ban without doing restitution work and stated that he would create alternate accounts to attempt to bypass the ban. Hosters, please support WFG by detecting Shyft's alternate accounts,and banning them from your games. Also report them, ideally with evidence, via forum PM to moderators Norse_Harold and Dunedan. Please encourage Shyft to return to the restorative justice process if he wants to get back into the game sooner. Edited June 25, 2023 by Norse_Harold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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