Gaia is a troll, Iberians are bigger trolls

[Gurken Khan]

9 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

realistically, you won't let an entire enemy army of 140 units through your wall gate. 

Unless it's a death trap?

I had a few unpleasant experiences with units being trapped, that taught me to either stay out or make sure to move my whole army in to capture the CC; I'm wondering why you didn't do that.

I think it would be a bit of a shame to remove the walls as they are unique to this civ, and since I sometimes exploit having a stupid villager opening the gates for me I'm also not really convinced of your second proposition either.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

4 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

So a fix must be applied or this civ has to be banned from TGs. 

the walls are not OP.  I don't see why the game should be changed because you made a mistake. Now you know to keep control of ur army. I think if a change had to be made, it would be allowing units that invaded the gate able to leave even if its locked (you could just unlock them). But this would require giving gates a direction, which IMO overcomplicates walls.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

4 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

Currently, the Spartan army can follow 1 iberian woman into the gate and hold the gate open for the rest of the Spartans. If the gate closes in 0.0001 second then there is no chance any Spartans can get in. 

• What if the woman and spartan go in at the same time? 
• Maybe just keep track of your units and beware of the value/cost of entering the walls if you sneak in.

  4 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

  So a fix must be applied or this civ has to be banned from TGs

  I have never seen anyone get this heated about iber walls.

In my opinion, the only OP thing about iber walls is that you can keep all your farms inside there and you are safe from raiding in late game which happens in about 80% of TGs. If cav become less survivable in a26, then this will be less important.

Firecav need nerf, we already know. I have played some iberians with firecav banned and I can say it is great fun. 

+ I love trapping people in walls and it 1000% is a good mechanic.

[Player of 0AD]

4 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Firecav need nerf, we already know.

Already done. Fire doesn't stack anymore, making firecav much less effective against buildings, rams, siege towers and many units. So they are much more similar to briton chariots and you rarely see someone complain about chariots being OP.

Firecav is not even stronger than in A24 but I think nobody ever complained in that alpha that they would be OP. Instead everyone complained about archers being OP. Hilarious from a A25 point of view....

[faction02]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

Already done. Fire doesn't stack anymore, making firecav much less effective against buildings, rams, siege towers and many units. So they are much more similar to briton chariots and you rarely see someone complain about chariots being OP.

Firecav is not even stronger than in A24 but I think nobody ever complained in that alpha that they would be OP. Instead everyone complained about archers being OP. Hilarious from a A25 point of view....

People rarely complain about chariots because Britons do not have Indibil to get cheap chariot. If not many people use chariots, there won't be many people to complain about them neither. Many complained about civilization loosing uniqueness in a24. Balancing firecavs to make them more like chariots is indeed a nerf but not something that will necessarily fix complaints.

I would prefer having fire/poison damages used to get some unique gameplay than having them used as a "bonus" for champions (and for me, a23 firecavs concept was more interesting than the current one anyway). For future reference, you can already put me on the list of people complaining about it next alpha, just in case I forget to do it explicitly.

Edited March 15, 2022 by faction02

[bad player]

sounds like a very very minor micro issue

[Stan`]

[Differential] D4516 [gameplay] Nerf fire cav (wildfiregames.com)

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

8 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Firecav is not even stronger than in A24 but I think nobody ever complained in that alpha that they would be OP. Instead everyone complained about archers being OP. Hilarious from a A25 point of view....

I liked firecav in a24. It was not as easy as it is now since you had to trade to get them and also navigate a sea of fortresses and towers with overlapping ranges, as well as being blocked by enemy units. Back and forth would go on for 20-30 minutes without a real attack, then ddos XD.

[Yekaterina]

10 hours ago, Player of 0AD said:

Firecav is not even stronger than in A24 but I think nobody ever complained in that alpha that they would be OP. Instead everyone complained about archers being OP. Hilarious from a A25 point of view....

The issue is, metal was scarce in A24 and the eco was slow -> mass champions was unaffordable -> few fire cav made. 5 fire cavs is not OP, it only becomes OP with numbers, 40 fire cav is enough to beat a full Ptol army, 120 is enough for 1v4. 

It's pointless to talk about A24 because the mechanics were completely differerent, not just stats. 

8 hours ago, faction02 said:

People rarely complain about chariots because Britons do not have Indibil to get cheap chariot. If not many people use chariots, there won't be many people to complain about them neither. Many complained about civilization loosing uniqueness in a24. Balancing firecavs to make them more like chariots is indeed a nerf but not something that will necessarily fix complaints.

 

Indeed. Another thing you need to consider is: Britons have weaker defences - more vulnerable to rush -> less easy to get to P3 and gather enough resources for champion spam. 

In terms of attack, there are 2 differences between chariots and fire cav:

1. Lack of fire damages means they are only effective against units but not structures

2. The chariots are bigger -> steric hindurance -> less stacking efficiency -> more time wasted on pathfinding, getting stuck etc and less time fighting.  

The Briton chariots are very OP if the player does decide to use them, however, most Britons players don't or never get to a point where they can afford many of it. 

 

About the walls, they are just an annoyance to both the Iber player and any enemies especially in late game. Allied units often get stuck in the walls as well! In one game, my Iberian teammate died because his walls trapped my huge Ptolemies army inside and he refused to delete the walls. Berries and deers often spawn inside walls or gates and that will confuse the hell out of your units.

Furthermore, Iberian structures look like slums... already favela without losing connection

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

58 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

About the walls, they are just an annoyance to both the Iber player and any enemies especially in late game. Allied units often get stuck in the walls as well! In one game, my Iberian teammate died because his walls trapped my huge Ptolemies army inside and he refused to delete the walls. Berries and deers often spawn inside walls or gates and that will confuse the hell out of your units.

Furthermore, Iberian structures look like slums... already favela without losing connection

 

I can't take that much hate XD. iber players get used to walls so it does not slow them down.

[Gurken Khan]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

In one game, my Iberian teammate died because his walls trapped my huge Ptolemies army inside and he refused to delete the walls.

lol. For all I know the gates open for allies. Did he lock the gates? I never had allied troops stuck in my walls.

I remember workers stupidly standing at walls because of ingrown trees or something, but I believe it's gotten much better in later versions.

[Alar1k]

My thoughts on this discussion - Iberian walls should stay so that early on Iberians have a chance against early raids - and furthermore, I don't see much of an issue with walls after you start your war path at P3 and already have rams (since EVERY darn civ has rams since a24 smh - but that is of the other issue...)

 

Another thing - I understand your problem with gaia after resignation - it should be made at least that units die after the ally resigns, and that buildings get destroyed - why destroyed? - well if the gaia buildings after resignation stay then the team that is left 3v4 is having even less of a chance then it had before the first teammate resigned

At least that destruction wouldn't tip the winning slider even further because more often then not the winning team will just capture all the remaining barracks and in an instant replenish their troops (even tho more often then not the enemy civ is of a different civ from the conqueror)

 

walls are really just awful after phase 2 (imho) when you want to support your teammate and he doesn't pay attention to them (but still you gotta learn to play with them if you get iber so it might be a good training for the inexperienced players) - and after resignation dear lord do walls annoy the hell out of me... so therefore why not make walls be torn down after resignation - it would help winning side and it would help loosing side as well - a win-win situation

 

Edit: Why not make fire cav limited - for instance "you can only make 20-30 fire cav per game" - make them take extra time to build as well or just don't let that iber champ affect champion troop timers at all

Edited March 22, 2022 by Alar1k