Looking to improve my macedon game any tips?

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Making skirms is good and all since pikemen slow down eco, but even when pumping out these guys i feel like meh. In the military department is where i feel the lack of options really.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Ps: I am not looking for tips like mix pikes and skirms or make merc archer and skirms , rather i would like some insight from those who play or have played macedon a lot

Edited June 5, 2021 by PyrrhicVictoryGuy

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I have played it once or twice, and so far it seems the best thing to do, especially if there are archers is to do pikes+skirms +rams+siege towers. Some people are trolls and go for up to 10 siege towers and this is frustrating, but usually 2 siege towers can be incredibly useful to go with your army if you know how to position them. Macedonians also have a hero who buffs rams and (I think) siege towers. I think it is best to have mostly pikes, but have skirms available to kill elephants, because these will threaten your siege. The truth is that macedonians have always been good at siege, and now that roman range siege is very bad, I would argue that mace have the best siege. 

Don't get mercs, they are not good, especially merc archers, as a maur enemy will have way more and they will only cost 50 food 50 wood.

I have not tried champions, I have seen some people get crossbowmen, but I heard mixed feelings about them. I suspect they are worse than champ archers.

 

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

The thing about the champ xbow is that setting up an eco that supports champs takes time that macedon doesn't have I think.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Specially when up against someone who competent and agressive.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

2 minutes ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

The thing about the champ xbow is that setting up an eco that supports champs takes time that macedon doesn't have I think.

Indeed, also they are the same range as archers I think, so archers can focus them down quickly. The best strategy is probably to have at least 2 siege towers and force an enemy to fight under them, you can use rams and pikes to threaten core buildings and force an enemy to come die to your towers. 

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

all and good but then you realize macedon is severly cripled by the lack of CS swordsman and cavalry swordsman to kill  rams. True you have your own rams but you'll need them to keep pressure and making them fight other rams is bad since you know elelphants are probably coming too. And you can't support both xbows and swords.

[Yekaterina]

If you are rich in metal, get champion spears and champion swords mixed into the phalanx of pikemen, and use skirmishers to do the main damage output. Use Phillip II Macedon to boost the champions. A trick is to have 1 or two empty siege towers with you to use as an ambulance for injured units. 

If you want to siege, get Demetrios poliorketes then spam siege towers or rams. Use some ground pikes and skirms to protect the siege. 

Another strategy is champion cavalry raids.  Get Phillip II Macedon alongside some champion companion cavalry and raid the enemy bases, while turtling with the rest of your infantry force to keep your eco up. 

Would recommend you to bring healers with pikemen so that they become undying and research all weapons tech before going into battle. 

Use a bolt shooter for support against enemy archers. 

 

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

When are you rich in metal as a greek faction that can't expand  quickly?

Edited June 5, 2021 by PyrrhicVictoryGuy

[Gurken Khan]

I think metal is generally a problem in a24, no?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

The shortest story is that Mace is bad in a24 and you will be at a disadvantage no matter what you do.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Yeah ..... excellent for a challenge I'd say. 

[Yekaterina]

I am a fan of Macedon and the approach is either mass pike+skirms with champs and healers. Then send in empty siege towers to act as ambulance :p

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I would never count on having enough metal for champs, usually I make room to train champs if they become possible in a game, since it only requires a 600 food upgrade. Sometimes there is not enough to even get all the basic military upgrades and eco upgrades a hero and 1 ram. Not only is it hard with only 5000 max metal, it is also hard being limited to 24 miners, meaning you have to simply wait to get all of these things that another player could do simultaneously.

[LetswaveaBook]

I have played them more than twice. I would suggest the following strategy for 1v1s. What seems to be a decent opening is to create 2-3 extra starting cavalry and run around the opposing territory to see what he is doing and get some kills and idle times. It is important to keep them alive. These cavalry are not very strong, as 6 skirmishers could beat 4 spear cav. You can use the intel to play more defensive than your opponent with some good tower placement. Playing defensive is a good advice since your opponent probably has a better boom, but if you manage the cavalry well, you know what is coming and can be prepared.

In p3, I think you hardly need more than 1 siege tower. That siege tower fires only 10 arrows at most and hence you don´t need to garrison more than 10 men. The siege tower is mainly to get free damage on opposing ranged troops and force the opponent to react. What the real killer should be are bolt shooters. An army with a few deployed bolt shooters is a very dangerous army, especially with Demetrios.

For pike/skirm ratio, I think 50/50 is the best ratio and that would be the ideal ratio in a model where one unit is a glass cannon and the other a target dummy. You need a reserve of some melee units other than pikes to defend against rams or use your own. I would say that crossbowmen and mercenary archers can be used, if you have surplus metal, but you should make only a few of them and keep them alive as good as possible.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I should have elaborated about my advice about Mace. I don't know squat about 1v1s :D, I had been assuming TG. It is possible that mercs are actually usable in 1v1s because from what I see of the map generations, there is usually 2-3 times as much metal available. 

@LetswaveaBook in a balanced 1v1 have you had success using merc archers vs standard archers? I'm just curious, since this would be unheard of in a 4v4. I also wonder if mercs are more common in general in 1v1s?
 

[LetswaveaBook]

7 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

in a balanced 1v1 have you had success using merc archers vs standard archers? I'm just curious, since this would be unheard of in a 4v4. I also wonder if mercs are more common in general in 1v1s?

They can be useful, but in my opinion they are too expensive for the core of your army.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

2 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I should have elaborated about my advice about Mace. I don't know squat about 1v1s :D, I had been assuming TG. It is possible that mercs are actually usable in 1v1s because from what I see of the map generations, there is usually 2-3 times as much metal available. 

@LetswaveaBook in a balanced 1v1 have you had success using merc archers vs standard archers? I'm just curious, since this would be unheard of in a 4v4. I also wonder if mercs are more common in general in 1v1s?
 

As seleucids i use about 30 merc archers per 1v1 against non archer civs but I don't dare putting them against regular CS archers. But seleucids are a different beast entirely.

[Yekaterina]

Experiment shows that 3:2 ratio of skirmishers to pikemen are the most effective against archers. 

[Player of 0AD]

Another unit which is good is the lance cavalry citizen

Siege towers are better than bolt shooters, they have just lower movement speed and range

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

I'll look into boltshooters but i suspect that one has to push early.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Well both towers and boltshooter have a severe case of elephant allergy

[alre]

towers don't have to be mounted, have a superior damage output, have crash damage, and can move while shooting. The only interesting advantage of bolt shooters is their range, but why would that matter, if you have to use a tower to protect them from archers?

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

I also prefer towers, the shooters are too slow for me 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

2 hours ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

Well both towers and boltshooter have a severe case of elephant allergy

It indeed can be hard to position these siege pieces, as eles are quite fast. The payoff is big if you can position them nicely and force your enemy to fight under them, usually you need to estimate the level of ele threat and make sure you are ready for them when they come; 20-40 skirms can make eles die in 1-4 volleys, but they can die so fast that its hard to keep them in the army.