Cavalry heroes

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

What do you think is better? Maharbaal plus both types of merc melee cavalry or antiochus megas plus CS spear cav?

[Player of 0AD]

Maharbal. The 30% bonus is better than the +2 armor. Can also be combined with champions.

At the other hand, the Cataphrakts can receive the bonus upgrade, which makes them stronger in the end
 

Btw I like sword cav more than spear cav

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

well gameplay wise i prefer sword cav too but my love will always be shock cav. I agree that maharbaal's bonus is better period, seleucids have the extra upgrade but that is another investment on top of the first upgrade plus the cost of making champ cav in the first place (and the less efficient type of cav at that). Another thing the that upgrade also increases training time by 10% therefore you must also take the training time upgrade.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Even my boy phillip synergizes better with the champ xbows and thracian swordsmen than with the companions. Meanwhile Gaul has the "superior cavalry" bonus that gives their cav 10% more  attack.

Edited May 27, 2021 by PyrrhicVictoryGuy

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Perhaps I'm exaggerating, I did a  4 man FFA with sneaky rams and companions.

[Player of 0AD]

Macedons and successors all have champ cavalry, which they can boost

- Macedons with Phillip
- Seleucids with Antiochus and the upgrade

- Ptolemies with Cleopatra (she is not as fast, but the best hero in the game nevertheless)

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Cleo boots cav? Everyday is a school day i guess

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

but my love will always be shock cav.

I have been asking for this for a long time.
especially for lancers.

their role is not as well defined as the difference between pikes and lances in infantry.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I wish seleucids had a melee CS (sword, spear, or axe) cavalry, it is so awkward to use their cavalry unless you mindlessly spam archer cav. If seles had this, they would probably be my favorite civ. I am one to hope they get one in a25 :D.

Edited May 28, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[LetswaveaBook]

The best cavalry hero is the one that makes them 35% cheaper

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Who ? The iberian fellow?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@LetswaveaBook I think they eliminated that hero bonus (if you are talking about "-35% metal cost for mercenaries"). Otherwise people would actually be getting mercs with Carthage lol. Mercs are pretty bad in a24, and I think the best way to balance mercs would be to give them the same cost/power setup as skiritai, except they can't gather res. Either that or metal mines could be doubled in value, 5000 to 10000.

Iber---> Indibil (all units 15% cheaper) is one of the best heroes because you can just keep him in a fort, and is very easy to keep him from dying and in the fort he can still give his bonus. This (along with 90 food 45 wood skim cav if ur double iber on one team) is what makes iber cav so good, it is also very easy to keep the iber champions alive and with indibil they only cost 85 metal. If the skirmisher discount civ bonus applied to champ skirm cav like it already does for CS skirm cav, this would be mad OP.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

13 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

I wish seleucids had a melee CS (sword, spear, or axe) cavalry, it is so awkward to use their cavalry unless you mindlessly spam archer cav. If seles had this, they would probably be my favorite civ. I am one to hope they get one in a25 :D.

What i don't understand is why there has to be a diference in roles , i mean there aren't many roles melee cav could have

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

often, when using cavalry you use the spearcav as hitpoint boosters for your whole group, they are effective and serve to extend the lifetime of your sword cav. I am not sure, but I think they have more armor. The difference in melee cav roles is important because it depends on what you want your cav to be doing, also it provides some choice and strategy and allows the game to be both economic and strategic. When fighting with cavalry, it does matter what units you have and how you use them.

TLDR: the same reason we have different ranged inf.

 

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Ranged infantry having different roles make sense to me although it kinda seems pointless because if you have archers you're gonna use the archers no matter  what ( this ain't total war were javelineers have limited ammo but have armor pierce or archers that counter other ranged infantry) but melee is melee cav, like if we give sword cav to ptol , mac and sel, nobody will make spear cav with these civs anymore. It will be like the prodromos/ hippikon thing in AOM , as the prodromos is so specilaized against cav that is worthless to use since hoplites do their job better and cheaper. I don't wish to see this happen again here.

Edited May 29, 2021 by PyrrhicVictoryGuy

[LetswaveaBook]

6 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

 I think they eliminated that hero bonus (if you are talking about "-35% metal cost for mercenaries").

I was talking about Ptolemy 1, which can be trained from the CC for extra comfort. Ptolemy 1 still has that bonus and it also affects food cost.

The only downside is that those mercenary cavalry can only be trained from the military colony.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

Yeah Ptolemy Soter's bonus is dope, and he also has an elephant which is just icing on top.

[LetswaveaBook]

4 minutes ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

Yeah Ptolemy Soter's bonus is dope, and he also has an elephant which is just icing on top.

and still people use Cleopatra a lot. I think getting p3 early and then using ptolemy I to get a lot of advanced mercenaries is a valid strategy.

[PyrrhicVictoryGuy]

But you have to be really early , which is easier with ptol. 

I think it could against slow civs like the greeks 

[Player of 0AD]

Cleopatra is so much better than Ptolemaios... Because mercenaries are a waste of resources now.

[Yekaterina]

Yes, but Ptolemy Philopator + Pikes makes push OP

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

6 hours ago, PyrrhicVictoryGuy said:

Yeah Ptolemy Soter's bonus is dope, and he also has an elephant which is just icing on top.

Wait, so the -35% metal cost does exist?

If this is in the game there is no way we can balance mercenaries. because either they are too expensive or dirt cheap (with that hero)

[soloooy0]

can something be done to make elephant archers useful?
some bonus of rate of fire or that they have melee option 
all elephants should have some damage in 360º area to make them important units, they are quite vulnerable ...

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

2 hours ago, soloooy0 said:

can something be done to make elephant archers useful?
some bonus of rate of fire or that they have melee option 
all elephants should have some damage in 360º area to make them important units, they are quite vulnerable ...

elephant archers are already quite overpowered especially if you consider that archers as a class are OP.

Just use them like any other archer, try to get like 20-30 or more of them before fighting and you will see how OP they are. They have more damage, more hp than all archers and these increase as they rank up, they are large targets, so their only downside is people recognising how powerful they are and focusing them down before you are able to mass them. 

I would be a proponent of making archer eles have a metal cost again.

Edited May 29, 2021 by BreakfastBurrito_007