Art References: Suebian German Units (Shields, Weapons, Clothing)

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 - need a fix.

2-

9-

11 I need see it better.

[Lion.Kanzen]

48 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Good start.  Not quite there yet.

@Obskiuras lol.

[Stan`]

Use the gaul shields instead 

[Obskiuras]

6 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

@Obskiuras lol.

They look a bit seedy, we will have to improve them

[Lion.Kanzen]

27 minutes ago, Obskiuras said:

They look a bit seedy, we will have to improve them

yes, my  first time dealing with this new models by Alexander

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Obskiuras said:

They look a bit seedy, we will have to improve them

this are very decent.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, Stan` said:

Use the gaul shields instead 

Yeah, that's what I was doing.  

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Genava55 please You have references if more art painted in the shields?

[Genava55]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

@Genava55 please You have references if more art painted in the shields?

Sadly no. Nothing more than the usual simple patterns we already posted in the other thread and sent by private message. There is little known about the Early Germans, especially on their artistic preferences.

Some other reenactment stuff:

Edited April 21, 2020 by Genava55

[Lion.Kanzen]

Very valuable. Coinage or pottery ?

[Lion.Kanzen]

--sorry I upload wrong format of file ---

Edited April 21, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Genava55]

7 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Coinage

Only Roman or Celtic coins, they didn't mint anything themselves at this time.

7 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

pottery

  See those:

On 9/12/2019 at 12:25 PM, Genava55 said:

Early Jastorf potteries (very early iron age, before 400BC):

 

[Genava55]

Aristocrat burial in Musov

https://www2.rgzm.de/Transformation/Czech/Musov/29012007.htm

https://www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/9999-german-spear-from-the-king-s-grave-of-musov/

[Lion.Kanzen]

Second wave of designs.

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________

this only must work with hexagonal shield.

Spoiler

here an Alternate if I miss with the first.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

I finish the second wave.

 

time to rest.

mostly can be used in other shield shapes I guess.

 

 

Suebian Shields wave 2.rar

Edited April 22, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

This will be our banner. (rally point banner)

[Ultimate Aurelian]

On 4/17/2020 at 9:14 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yeah, these should be champion and hero shields. The citizen soldier shields can be less colorful versions of these with no boss or wooden boss. 

Since they did not use much armor, clothing and shields will be the best way to distinguish rank.

Here is my suggestion for citizen spearman shields:

Basic: Rectangular or oval shield, wooden boss

Advanced:Rectangular oval or hexagonal, wooden boss

Elite: Rectangular, oval or hexagonal shield; wooden boss, but some might have a reinforced spina or simple boss

Patterns differ too,  basic units could have very simple ones (Painted in a single solid color or unpainted except for designs):

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian

[Ultimate Aurelian]

 

On 25/08/2019 at 4:49 AM, Genava55 said:

Arminius (*Herminaz?) could have Roman equipment from his past (Arminius is actually Cherusci but I think everybody wants him to be a playable hero, the other possibility is Maroboduus which is more accurate and more interesting). Ariovistus (*Harjafristaz? or a Celtic, Ariouistos?) could have Gallic equipment. Ballomar could wear a 100% Germanic outfit and carrying only Germanic weapons.

Edit: Maroboduus could increase the experience gained by his troops as a reflection of the regular training he ordered. Ariovistus could give a territory extension bonus or a capture bonus as a reflection of his conquest in Gaul and his skills in politics. Ballomar could give a bonus in looting.

Posting some possible references for Suebian Heroes (Based on your Gaul hero post).

Ariovistus:

Spoiler

Port helmet (Horned?)

 

Chainmail and hexagonal shield:

 

Celtic Long sword:

 

 

Maroboodus (Marobodwos ?):

Spoiler

Shield and Griffin helmet based on Portonaccio Sarcophagus:

 

Spatha

Kemnitz Muscle Cuirass:

 

 

Or scale armor:

:

 

 

 

Ballomar (Reconstructed as celtic Ballomaros, possibly germanic Baldomarijaz ?)

Spoiler

Simple helmet with fur covering or horns:

Rectangular shield (As above)

Leather Armor:

 

 

Vimose Mail Shirt:

Fur cape:

 

Heavy thrusting spear:

 

Arminius could be a fourth option (Mercenary hero?)

Spoiler

Masked helmet from Kalkriese:

Similar helmet from Batavian burial modified with a straw wig

Lorica Hamata, armed with Roman sword or cavalry Spear :

 

Roman Oval Equestrian or Auxilia shield:

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ultimate Aurelian

[Genava55]

Celtic-like / Roman-like cavalry along the Rhine

[Ultimate Aurelian]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

Celtic-like / Roman-like cavalry along the Rhine

Batavian regional mercenary unit,  the heaviest cavalry avaliable to Germans (Cimbri have heaviest infantry).

Or maybe the mounted slinger you mentioned; which i guess is based on this account by Hadrian:

Quote

‘It is difficult for the cavalry of a (mixed) cohort to put on a pleasing display anyway, and especially difficult not to displease after an exercise performed by an ala\ the latter fills a greater expanse of plain, has more riders to throw javelins, makes frequent wheels to the right and performs the Cantabrian ride in close formation, and, in keeping with their higher pay, has superior horses and finer equipment. However, you have overcome these disadvantages by doing everything you have done energetically, in spite of the hot temperature; Added to this, you have shot stones from slings and fought with javelins and everywhere mounted quickly. The special care taken by my legate Catullinus is very obvious...’

Although it says they mounted quickly, so it's possible they were mounted infantry who fired slings on foot.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian

[Genava55]

41 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Although it says they mounted quickly, so it's possible they were mounted infantry who fired slings on foot.

It could be mounted infantry indeed. Hard to know exactly.

42 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Or maybe the mounted slinger you mentioned; which i guess is based on this account by Hadrian:

There is another account as well

Book 1, Ch. 46: "While these things are being transacted in the conference it was announced to Caesar that the cavalry of Ariovistus were approaching nearer the mound, and were riding up to our men, and casting stones and weapons at them."

43 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Batavian regional mercenary unit,  the heaviest cavalry avaliable to Germans (Cimbri have heaviest infantry).

Clearly regional units should be an important asset. Itself, the Suebian tribe doesn't seem to have such an amazing and diversified roster but by including other neighboring tribes it becomes more solid and balanced.

[Ultimate Aurelian]

28 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Clearly regional units should be an important asset. Itself, the Suebian tribe doesn't seem to have such an amazing and diversified roster but by including other neighboring tribes it becomes more solid and balanced.

Choosing regions is a good way portray the diversity of germanics, without having to implement multiple factions (Cimbrians or Rhine tribes might be doable in the future, but a Lugii or Aestii faction would be very difficult to find material on).

Edited May 4, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian

[Genava55]

13 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Choosing regions is a good way portray the diversity of germanics, without having to implement multiple factions (Cimbrians or Rhine tribes might be doable in the future, but a Lugii or Aestii faction would be very difficult to find material on).

The Aestii yes clearly. The Lugii not necessarily, this is the Przeworsk culture, the same as the later Vandals. The only trouble would be to find heroes, the only known names are from the Vandals.

[Ultimate Aurelian]

On 5/4/2020 at 12:57 PM, Genava55 said:

The Aestii yes clearly. The Lugii not necessarily, this is the Przeworsk culture, the same as the later Vandals. The only trouble would be to find heroes, the only known names are from the Vandals.

I'd say Lugii and Suebians would be more similar to each other than Britons and Gauls (Same buildings, similar roster except for night warrior and celtic swordsman champion).

Also here is my draft for Suebi regional units (I choose to portray Batavians as mailed spear cav):

Spoiler

 

 

NORTHERN UNITS

Generic Name: Suiones Archer

Specific Name:Sweoniz Skeutan

Class: Archer

Ranged Armament:Bow

Appearance: 

 Garb:
Basic: Shirtless may have cape
 

  Helmet:
Basic: Bareheaded.
                Shield:
          Basic: none
 

History: 

Garrison: 1. 

Function: - 

Special: - 

 

Generic Name: Cimbrian Retainer

Specific Name:Kimbraz Herthaganautaz

Class: Champion Infantry Unit. 

Hacker Armament: Sword

Garb: Cape, padded armor or mail (Phalerae?)

Helmet: Simple germanic helmet, wooden helmet or celtic helmet (Coolus, Port) with crest

Shield: Large shield with metal boss may have metal rim,  oval, hexagonal

History: 

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special: 

 

 

RHINE UNITS

Generic Name: Chatti Veteran

Specific Name:Hatjahalitaz

Class: Spear Infantry

 Hacker Armament: Spear, decorative sword

Garb: Expensive tunic with cape, may be padded

Helmet: Looted roman helmet, simple germanic helmet, or celtic helmet (coolus, and port)

Shield: Large shield with metal boss may have metal rim, hexagonal or rectangular

History: 

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special: 

 

NORTH SEA UNITS

 

Generic Name: Cheruscian Pikeman

Specific Name: Heruzkaz Speutan

Class: Pikeman

Hacker Armament:Pike

Appearance: 

 Garb:
Basic: Tunic, may have cape

        Helmet:
          Basic:
         Shield:
        Basic: Larged wooden shield, round or rectangular, may have metal boss or reinforced   spina

 History: 

Garrison: 1. 

Function: - 

Special: - 

 

Generic Name:Batavian lancer

Specific Name:Batawjas Ridanz

Class: Cavalry spearman

Hacker Armament:Spear

Garb:
Basic:Padded armor or chainmail, cape

Helmet:
Basic: Looted roman, germanic, celtic (Port, coolus, foret)

Shield:
Elite: Oval or hexagonal shield, metal boss may have metal rim

History:  

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special:  

 

POMERANIAN UNITS

Generic Name:Haari night warrior

Specific Name:Nahtsharjaz

Class: Speaman

Hacker Armament: Framea

Garb:
Basic: Shirtless, cape

Helmet:
Basic: None
Shield:
Basic: Oval,  or rectangular, painted black; may have reinforced spina or metal boss

History:  

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special:  May frighten enemy units

 

Generic Name:Lugian mercenary Swordsman

Specific Name:Lugiz Herunautaz/Aswinas/Toutaginos

Class: Swordsman

Hacker Armament: LaTene Sword

Garb:
Basic:Tunic and cape may be padded

Helmet:
Basic: Cap, simple germanic helmet, eastern style port helmet (Mihovo, simiechow)

Shield:
Basic: Rectangular, Oval or hexagonal shield, reinforced spina or metal boss

History:  

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special:  

 

BALTIC UNITS

Generic Name:Rugian warrior

Specific Name:Korodrougo

            Class: Swordsman

Hacker Armament: Short sword

Garb:
Basic: Shirtless with cape
Helmet:
Basic: Pointy cap

Shield:
Basic: Simple wooden shield, round
            History:  

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special:  

 

 

 

Generic Name:Aestii axewoman

Specific Name:

Class: Axe Infantry

Hacker Armament: Axe

Appearance: 

Garb:
Basic: Dress
Helmet:
Basic:none
Shield:
Basic:Simple round or square shield

History: 

Garrison: 1. 

Function: 

Special: Either the unit is all female and boost nearby units, or it is a more normal axe unit with both male and females

 

I did not include the Rhine horse-stabber (Marhajagonaz ?) since you already plan it for the celts; maybe Gauls get mounted horse-stabbers and Germans have a infantry one ?

BTW the Cimbri are described with shining iron breastplates (Maybe just the way the author described mail, some r2tw mods have then with Iberian esque plates but might be innacurate).

Quote

As for the Cimbri, their foot-soldiers advanced slowly from their defences, with a depth equal to their front, for each side of their formation had an extent of thirty furlongs; and their horsemen, fifteen thousand strong, rode out in splendid style, with helmets made to resemble the maws of frightful wild beasts or the heads of strange animals, which, with their towering crests of feathers, made their wearers appear taller than they really were; they were also equipped with breastplates of iron, and carried gleaming white shields. For hurling, each man had two lances; and at close quarters they used large, heavy swords.

The ''beast helmets'' could be either Celtic helmets with animal crests, or maybe fur wrapped helmets like the Geldubba find.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Ultimate Aurelian