Grumpy Gurken's recenst ramblings

[Guest]

Regular soldiers can build and all. Just not collect resources.

[Gurken Khan]

I see.

Now I'm wondering to what degree that decision is due to principle and how much to pragmatism...

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Right, the behavior of healers needs fixed. That might be in the UnitAI. @Gurken Khan, can you identify the behavior your wish to see for healers?

 

For me, healers, when in a mixed selection, and that selection is tasked to attack something, the Healer should hang back and not close to min range with the target, because th healer does not (by standard) have an attack for the target. Currently, many times if the healer is a part of a mixed selection tasked to target an enemy entity, the healer will endanger itself by walking right up to the target. 

[Guest]

Huh, thats wierd. I recall seeing a check for healers in UnitAI attack code. Could be wrong.

[Silier]

4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Right, the behavior of healers needs fixed. That might be in the UnitAI. @Gurken Khan, can you identify the behavior your wish to see for healers?

 

For me, healers, when in a mixed selection, and that selection is tasked to attack something, the Healer should hang back and not close to min range with the target, because th healer does not (by standard) have an attack for the target. Currently, many times if the healer is a part of a mixed selection tasked to target an enemy entity, the healer will endanger itself by walking right up to the target. 

I think it is because of way it is done on input processing.  If unit cannot perform attack command, next type of command is taken into account e. g. walk to point if attack is not forced command by key shortcuts. ( maybe move command applies anyway, do not know way of restrictions) 

 

So order processed by unitai is probably order.walktopoint instead order.attack.That way even checks in order. attack cannot help. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Angen

[Gurken Khan]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

@Gurken Khan, can you identify the behavior your wish to see for healers?

Yes. Firstly, if I tell them to move somewhere, I want all healers to go all the way to that location. Currently a lot of healers go a lot of the way, but quite frequently they all just stay where they are (if part of a selection), or a few will stay back or stop walking somewhere on the way.

Unlike you I want my healers to move up to the target with the rest of the selection; if I didn't want that I'd not tell them to do that. If, for example, I want to capture a CC, I want these 'support' units to actually support my soldiers and heal them while they're at it. (Which also decreases the length of a 'healing session' after such an attack, which I feel can be quite lengthy even though I typically roll with ten healers.)

True, the healers might be shot at, but I do it in turtle speed anyway so I can micro healing if necessary.

Currently I just try to discipline them by repeating orders, which - thanks to ctlr groups - isn't that much of a pain.

I don't know if maybe their behavior according to their stances should also be adjusted, I didn't feel like 'aggressive' or 'defensive' had the effect I anticipated. (So 'stand ground' it is for me/them.)

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Angen said:

So order processed by unitai is probably order.walktopoint instead order.attack.That way even checks in order. attack cannot help. 

The "canAttack" check is done ealier than that.

Spoiler

UnitAI.prototype.Attack = function(target, allowCapture = true, queued = false)
{
	if (!this.CanAttack(target))
	{
		// We don't want to let healers walk to the target unit so they can be easily killed.
		// Instead we just let them get into healing range.
		if (this.IsHealer())
			this.MoveToTargetRange(target, IID_Heal);
		else
			this.WalkToTarget(target, queued);
		return;
	}
	this.AddOrder("Attack", { "target": target, "force": true, "allowCapture": allowCapture}, queued);
};

 

So, I am not sure how the healer can go up to the target. Although, I agree that moving within healing range to the target is kinda bad as well.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Guest

[Gurken Khan]

7 hours ago, (-_-) said:

Although, I agree that moving within healing range to the target is kinda bad as well.

I'm afraid I fail to get the point. I assume y'all know how to un-select certain units from a selection; so if I wouldn't want my healers at a target, I simply wouldn't tell them to go there.

Me, I want my units to do what I tell them, including the healers when I tell my army to attack sth (for the reasons I stated above). I'm usually not too happy with 'decisions' my units make, and I don't want my healers to make their decisions like 'hanging back' or RATM'ing me here.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

I'm afraid I fail to get the point. I assume y'all know how to un-select certain units from a selection; so if I wouldn't want my healers at a target, I simply wouldn't tell them to go there.

Me, I want my units to do what I tell them, including the healers when I tell my army to attack sth (for the reasons I stated above). I'm usually not too happy with 'decisions' my units make, and I don't want my healers to make their decisions like 'hanging back' or RATM'ing me here.

Welp sorry? You're in the minority lol

[Guest]

Whats the alternative to healers moving to healing range?

Current system seems rather bad. To me atleast.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Guest

[Gurken Khan]

12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Welp sorry? You're in the minority lol

I'm used to have minority opinions, so no prob. Which ofc doesn't stop me from sharing them.

Spoiler

And to keep thinking highly of them.

 

@(-_-) Having healers in healing range appears to be an outlandish minority approach. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

[thankforpie]

On 11/9/2018 at 8:10 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Right, the behavior of healers needs fixed. That might be in the UnitAI. @Gurken Khan, can you identify the behavior your wish to see for healers?

 

For me, healers, when in a mixed selection, and that selection is tasked to attack something, the Healer should hang back and not close to min range with the target, because th healer does not (by standard) have an attack for the target. Currently, many times if the healer is a part of a mixed selection tasked to target an enemy entity, the healer will endanger itself by walking right up to the target. 

happens everytimehere tbh

[Gurken Khan]

When I put 0 A.D. on pause it's pretty much guaranteed to crash (no crash logging). Anyone knows why?

I don't know whether pyrogenisis.exe just doesn't like the 'run time' or if there's anything happening during pause.

[Stan`]

33 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

When I put 0 A.D. on pause it's pretty much guaranteed to crash (no crash logging). Anyone knows why?

I don't know whether pyrogenisis.exe just doesn't like the 'run time' or if there's anything happening during pause.

Pause as in Alt+Tab or something else ?

[Gurken Khan]

@stanislas69 Pause via menu or kb and then alt+tab.

[Stan`]

49 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

@stanislas69 Pause via menu or kb and then alt+tab.

Is the crash consistent ? Can you reproduce it every time ?

[Gurken Khan]

I think so, yes. I mostly stopped having 0 A.D. on pause, usually exiting it completely if I go afk a bit or wanna watch some vids. I completely stopped having it on pause when I put my computer into sleeping mode, because apparently the game doesn't like to be on hold and crashes then too.

I'm on Win 8.1, in case it matters.

 

Edit: Looked a bit at system 'events' (right word?)

Spoiler

I think this was the report for the last crash:

Name der fehlerhaften Anwendung: pyrogenesis.exe, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x5af279ed
Name des fehlerhaften Moduls: pyrogenesis.exe, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x5af279ed
Ausnahmecode: 0xc0000005
Fehleroffset: 0x0029ce95
ID des fehlerhaften Prozesses: 0xd9c

 

I got a bunch of 409 exception codes, think that were my last crashes while playing:

Name der fehlerhaften Anwendung: pyrogenesis.exe, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x5af279ed
Name des fehlerhaften Moduls: MSVCR120.dll, Version: 12.0.21005.1, Zeitstempel: 0x524f7ce6
Ausnahmecode: 0xc0000409
Fehleroffset: 0x000a46a9
ID des fehlerhaften Prozesses: 0xfcc

Name der fehlerhaften Anwendung: pyrogenesis.exe, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x5af279ed
Name des fehlerhaften Moduls: MSVCR120.dll, Version: 12.0.21005.1, Zeitstempel: 0x524f7ce6
Ausnahmecode: 0xc0000409
Fehleroffset: 0x000a46a9
ID des fehlerhaften Prozesses: 0x1604

Name der fehlerhaften Anwendung: pyrogenesis.exe, Version: 0.0.0.0, Zeitstempel: 0x5af279ed
Name des fehlerhaften Moduls: MSVCR120.dll, Version: 12.0.21005.1, Zeitstempel: 0x524f7ce6
Ausnahmecode: 0xc0000409
Fehleroffset: 0x000a46a9
ID des fehlerhaften Prozesses: 0x6fc

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Gurken Khan

[Guest]

Maybe disabling V-Sync would help. Although, I am not particulary hopeful.

source: I had to do it to fix a similiar issue on win7 a long time ago. This apparently is a frequent issue as evident by a google search.

[Silier]

@Gurken Khan does it happen when pauses in windowed mode? or fullscreen with postprocessing disabled?

Edit: sadly cannot reproduce anyway

Edited November 14, 2018 by Angen

[Gurken Khan]

@(-_-) V-Sync is disabled. No luck there.

@Angen Fullscreen with postprocessing disabled

 

Because of my frequent crashes I disabled a bunch of things, can't say I noticed any effect on stability.

Spoiler

 

[Gurken Khan]

On 11/14/2018 at 7:01 AM, Angen said:

Edit: sadly cannot reproduce anyway

Tried it again last night; it 'worked', but I fell asleep so I can't tell how long it took, lol. I believe it was >1 hour. I'm kinda used to encounter quite 'original' errors, so wouldn't surprise me too much if no one else can reproduce it.

 

On a completely different note, the game just crashed:

Function call failed: return value was -1 (Function failed (no details available))

Location: SavedGame.cpp:113 (SavedGames::Save)

Call stack:
0036E0FF
003EE5B9
003EED98
003E9FCA
003E9317
003E9A58
5E0736A4
5E077D91
4ABB6250
0068EB58

errno = 13 (Insufficient access rights to open file)

OS error = 0 (no error code was set)

ERROR: could not initialize ogg data at audio/music/Sands_of_Time.ogg

ERROR: Failed to save game

 

Often the error message tells me something like 'Out of address space. A 64bit OS might help.' I do have a 64bit OS, while you're only a 32bit program anyway...

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

errno = 13 (Insufficient access rights to open file)

Give 0AD read/write access to the directory where saved games are written to. Else, run 0AD as an Administrator. Not sure the consequences of that in Windows.

[Gurken Khan]

3 minutes ago, (-_-) said:

Give 0AD read/write access to the directory where saved games are written to.

Normally I can save games; so 0AD should have those rights, no?

[Stan`]

It should indeed.

Generally this occurs because 

• You don't have enough disk space
• Your antivirus is scanning the save file when it's being written.
• Another app is using that file.

Does the out of address space occurs when you are playing with AIs ?

The sound error is weird though

[Gurken Khan]

@stanislas69 Thanks for your reply.

I have 640KB >800GB free disk space; that oughta be enough.

I should follow that antivir lead.

What other app could be using a 0AD file?

That out of address stuff usually comes up when things already have gone to sh*ts and I'm trying to click away those gray error windows with 'continue'. Although I believe the messages that an error has occurred, I'm not sure how much of the details I should believe...