Units are behaving weirdly

[PALANK]

 

Hi, I wanted to talk about the behavior of the units. In the aggressive mode, the units are distracted by the buildings, I think that this should not be the case except for the siege machines. And also that his attack radius is too broad. This prevents maneuvering the battle.

[Lion.Kanzen]

There a hockey in manual, that give or to units to attack organic enemy units. (yes manual that thing nobodies read for some reason.)

But no problem, we have one outside by the game. https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/HotKeys

Ctrl Q and mouse click.

Spoiler

Ctrl + Right Click: On building: Garrison.
J + Right Click On building: Repair.
P + Right Click: Patrol.
Alt + Any Order: Only one unit from the current selection receives the order, and is unselected.
Shift + Right Click or Left Click: When placing buildings: Queue the move/build/gather/etc order.
Shift + Left Click: When training units: Add units in batches (the batch size is 5 by default and can be changed in the options).
Shift + Left Click: On garrisoned unit/s: Ungarrison all units of the same type.
Shift + Left Click: On market barter icons: Buy/sell resources in increments of 500.
Shift + Left Click or Left Drag: Over unit on map: Add unit to selection.
Ctrl + Left Click or Left Drag: Over unit on map: Remove unit from selection.
Alt + Left Drag: Over units on map: Only select military units.
Alt +Y+ Left Drag: Over units on map: Only select non-military units.
I + Left Drag: Over units on map: Only select idle units.
O + Left Drag: Over units on map: Only select wounded units.
Ctrl + Left Click: On unit/group icon with multiple units selected: Deselect.
Right Click: With a building/buildings selected: sets a rally point for units created/ungarrisoned from that building.
Right Click: On the selected building with a building/buildings selected: unsets the rally point of these buildings.
Right Drag: With units selected: when the mouse is released, the units will spread out on your drawn line. Same modification options like normal move command.
Ctrl + Right Click: On the selected building with a building/buildings selected: sets the rally point for units created from that building to garrison inside the building.
Ctrl + Right Click: With units selected:

• If the cursor is over an allied structure: Garrison.
• If the cursor is over a non-allied unit or building: Attack (instead of capture or gather).
• Otherwise: Attack-move (by default, enemies units and structures are targeted during Attack-move.
  To target only units, press also Q, i.e. Ctrl + Q + Right Click).
   

G + Right Click: On a unit/building with units selected: the selected units will guard/escort the unit/building.
Left Click: On a group icon: select the members of the group.
Double Left Click: On a group icon: focus the members of the group.
Right Click: On a group icon: disband the group

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone you mention something related with stance and other the range of sight.

[Stan`]

I believe his concern was for an A23 change.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone you mention something related with stance and other the range of sight.

 

1 hour ago, stanislas69 said:

I believe his concern was for an A23 change.

Yeah, my thought was that there should be an "action range" in addition to a vision range. Currently, all units berserk against anything that comes within vision range. This makes army control (needlessly) difficult. So, selecting stances would decouple this behavior from vision range:

Aggressive: Attack any enemy unit/building within 95% of vision range.

Defensive (default): Only attack enemy units/buildings within 50% of vision range.

Standground: Only attack enemy units/buildings within 5-10% of vision range.

 

Other stances, like Passive and Avoid, are defaults for specific units (Avoid for Female Citizens, for instance) or attached to abilities (Passive for some kind of Scouting command) and not much relevant to what I'm talking about.

[Nescio]

16 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Aggressive: Attack any enemy unit/building within 95% of vision range.

Defensive (default): Only attack enemy units/buildings within 50% of vision range.

Standground: Only attack enemy units/buildings within 5-10% of vision range.

Because attack range is often close to vision range, this would imply ranged units will not attack enemies within range by default.

Personally I think the distance at which units start attacking is not the most important; what matters more is how long they will pursue foes and how easy they can be distracted and turn to a different target.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, Nescio said:

Because attack range is often close to vision range, this would imply ranged units will not attack enemies within range by default.

My post wasn't meant to be a definitive proposal. The behavior of ranged units would need to be adjusted as well of course.

[Nescio]

36 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

My post wasn't meant to be a definitive proposal. The behavior of ranged units would need to be adjusted as well of course.

Yeah, I understand it's not definite. However, I think a certain stance should mean the same for all units, otherwise it's confusing. Also, attack distance as a percentage of vision range might sound interesting but is flawed in principle: different units have different attack and vision ranges. E.g. if you don't want melee units to be passively killed by default by ranged units, the longest ranged attack range should be less than half of the shortest vision range, which would probably be not a good idea.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's a flaw particular to my idea, since melee units can easily be pummeled at long range already if the enemy archer has a greater range than your soldier's vision.

[causative]

15 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

 

 Yeah, my thought was that there should be an "action range" in addition to a vision range. Currently, all units berserk against anything that comes within vision range. This makes army control (needlessly) difficult. So, selecting stances would decouple this behavior from vision range:

Aggressive: Attack any enemy unit/building within 95% of vision range.

Defensive (default): Only attack enemy units/buildings within 50% of vision range.

Standground: Only attack enemy units/buildings within 5-10% of vision range.

 

Other stances, like Passive and Avoid, are defaults for specific units (Avoid for Female Citizens, for instance) or attached to abilities (Passive for some kind of Scouting command) and not much relevant to what I'm talking about.

I believe it already does something like this.  Units only berserk against anything that comes within vision range, if they are on aggressive or violent stance.  The aggro range for defensive stance is shorter.

[Nescio]

9 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's a flaw particular to my idea, since melee units can easily be pummeled at long range already if the enemy archer has a greater range than your soldier's vision.

To clarify, I'm not saying the current situation is good or anything, I'm just questioning whether your proposal, regardless the numbers chosen, would be a real improvement.

6 hours ago, causative said:

I believe it already does something like this.  Units only berserk against anything that comes within vision range, if they are on aggressive or violent stance.  The aggro range for defensive stance is shorter.

What should be changed perhaps is not really the distance at which units start attacking enemies, but the distance they continue chasing them before they return to their original position.

[causative]

2 hours ago, Nescio said:

What should be changed perhaps is not really the distance at which units start attacking enemies, but the distance they continue chasing them before they return to their original position.

That also depends on stance.  Units should just have defensive stance by default.

[Sundiata]

1 hour ago, causative said:

Units should just have defensive stance by default.

Yeah, if you're more of a "political" player it gives you grey hair to see units start a cycle of all out war and destruction all on their own... Makes me want to delete units just to punish them for their insolence!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Sundiata

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think the behavior of "defensive" stance right now is pretty weird too.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Has there been thought regarding how units respond to dangerous animals? Right now, they just berserk and attack any dangerous animal within vision range, which is kind of annoying. For example, in A23, at the start of the match on Butana Steppe, units immediately move off to go attack a rhinoceros. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Servo]

I think like in RoN the military structures should have options as to what behavior/stance the unit will have when it comes out. This way the player can have their preference. Though support units can always have a default “flee when attack” stance. 

[causative]

13 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I think the behavior of "defensive" stance right now is pretty weird too.

Why?