Macedonian wonder

[Tomcelmare]

Now that the seleucids have their own wonder, I think the mausoleum of Halicarnassus could be a nice one for the macedonians (not to mention that it is still proposed as their offical wonder on the 0ad website)...what do you think? Do you have other ideas?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

was a tomb built between 353 and 350 BC at Halicarnassus (present Bodrum, Turkey) for Mausolus, a satrap in the Persian Empire,

is more a greek-persian Wonder than Macedonian.

[feneur]

I am at work at the moment, so I don't have time to check it up, but has anything more been made known of that tomb they found in Macedonia last year? It might be an option if it turns out to be related to this time period and can be displayed in a nice way.

[Tomcelmare]

Well, the same can be said for the hanging gardens of Babylon, which has not been made by persians...but it's also important to strike imagination, and everybody has heard of Halicarnassus, as one of the seven wonders of the ancient world...it would emphasize the conquering aspect of macedonians who have, with Alexander the Great, conquered the Persian Empire, and seized its wealth, palaces, and wonders...I don't think there was anything as prestigious within Macedonia itself...

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Tomcelmare actually  a placeholder and the real Persian Wonder is the gate of all Nations

 

[Tomcelmare]

Really? I actually like the ziqurat very much. It's the best wonder of the game for me. However, you could keep it for Aristeia, as babylonian wonder.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Don't worry , will be eyecandy... And wonder in Aristeia.

[Tomcelmare]

So here's the tomb of Amphipolis:

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/MacedonianTombAmphipolis.html

There are some mosaics and nice doors, but I don't think it could be convenient for a wonder...

[Macedonian]

On 6/8/2016 at 9:54 PM, Tomcelmare said:

So here's the tomb of Amphipolis:

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/MacedonianTombAmphipolis.html

There are some mosaics and nice doors, but I don't think it could be convenient for a wonder...

Never trust historyofmacedonia.org! It's a known ultra-nationalist website, full of misinformation, historical inaccuracies and fallacies.

[sphyrth]

On 6/8/2016 at 4:09 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

[The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus] is more a greek-persian Wonder than Macedonian.

Well, Alexander the Great invaded Persia. So... I'm just trolling.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think the royal palace at Pella could work. Just makw it a little fancier than it was.

[Tomcelmare]

Ha ha! Yes I saw the webmasters's view afterwards...However the part about the tomb doesn't look like propaganda...

[Stan`]

Note to self: Next time, check history before modelling a building. Also RTFM.

 

mausoleum.zip

[Nescio]

3 hours ago, Stan` said:

Note to self: Next time, check history before modelling a building. Also RTFM.

First a bit of context: Mausolos was satrap (Persian viceroy) of Caria; he conquered neighbouring Lycia, and moved his capital from inland (Carian) Mylasa (Milas) to coastal (Ionic, originally Doric) Halicarnassus (Bodrum), rebuilding the city. After his death his wife (and sister) Artemisia II erected an enormous tomb in the very centre of the city and commissioned famous Greek artists to decorate it, who continued after her death to finish it.

Although the decorations (colums, sculptures, etc.) were Greek, the design itself was fundamentally a grander version of the monumental tombs of the Lycian capital Xanthus (e.g. the Harpy Tomb, Nereid Monument, and Tomb of Payava), which were in turn inspired by the Tomb of Cyrus the Great near Pasargadae, which would also be great to have in 0 A.D.

As for the Tomb of Mausolos in Halicarnassus, most of it was destroyed from the 15th C onwards, when the Knights Hospitaller decided to erect a massive castle, and needed building materials. What we know is largely based on two short descriptions by Roman authors (texts and translations taken from Perseus).

Firstly, Pliny the Elder's Naturalis Historia (use with caution) 36.4.30-31:

Spoiler

[30] Scopas habuit eadem aetate Bryaxim et Timotheum et Leocharen, de quibus simul dicendum est, quoniam pariter caelavere Mausoleum. sepulchrum hoc est ab uxore Artemisia factum Mausolo, Cariae regulo, qui obiit olympiadis CVII anno secundo. opus id ut esset inter septem miracula, hi maxime fecere artifices. patet ab austro et septentrione sexagenos ternos pedes, brevius a frontibus, toto circumitu pedes CCCCXXXX, attollitur in altitudinem XXV cubitis, cingitur columnis XXXVI. pteron vocavere circumitum.

Scopas had for rivals and contemporaries, Bryaxis, Timotheus, and Leochares, artists whom we are bound to mention together, from the fact that they worked together at the Mausoleum; such being the name of the tomb that was erected by his wife Artemisia in honour of Mausolus, a petty king of Caria, who died in the second year of the hundred and seventh Olympiad. It was through the exertions of these artists more particularly, that this work came to be reckoned one of the Seven Wonders of the World. The circumference of this building is, in all, four hundred and forty feet, and the breadth from north to south sixty-three, the two fronts being not so wide in extent. It is twenty-five cubits in height, and is surrounded with six-and-thirty columns, the outer circumference being known as the "Pteron."

[31] ab oriente caelavit Scopas, a septentrione Bryaxis, a meridie Timotheus, ab occasu Leochares, priusque quam peragerent, regina obiit. non tamen recesserunt nisi absoluto, iam id gloriae ipsorum artisque monimentum iudicantes; hodieque certant manus. accessit et quintus artifex. namque supra pteron pyramis altitudinem inferiorem aequat, viginti quattuor gradibus in metae cacumen se contrahens; in summo est quadriga marmorea, quam fecit Pythis. haec adiecta CXXXX pedum altitudine totum opus includit. —

The east side was sculptured by Scopas, the north by Bryaxis, the south by Timotheus, and the west by Leochares; but, before their task was completed, Queen Artemisia died. They did not leave their work, however, until it was finished, considering that it was at once a memorial of their own fame and of the sculptor's art: and, to this day even, it is undecided which of them has excelled. A fifth artist also took part in the work; for above the Pteron there is a pyramid erected, equal in height to the building below, and formed of four and twenty steps, which gradually taper upwards towards the summit; a platform, crowned with a representation of a four-horse chariot by Pythis. This addition makes the total height of the work one hundred and forty feet.

Secondly, Vitruvius' De Architectura 2.8.10-11:

Spoiler

[10] Croesi domus, quam Sardiani civibus ad requiescendum aetatis otio seniorum collegio gerusiam dedicaverunt; item Halicarnasso potentissimi regis Mausoli domus, @#$% Proconnensio marmore omnia haberet ornata, parietes habet latere structos, qui ad hoc tempus egregiam praestant firmitatem ita tectoriis operibus expoliti, uti vitri perluciditatem videantur habere. neque is rex ab inopia id fecit; infinitis enim vectigalibus erat fartus, quod imperabat Cariae toti.

Then there is the house of Croesus which the people of Sardis have set apart as a place of repose for their fellow-citizens in the retirement of age,—a “Gerousia” for the guild of the elder men. At Halicarnassus, the house of that most potent king Mausolus, though decorated throughout with Proconnesian marble, has walls built of brick which are to this day of extraordinary strength, and are covered with stucco so highly polished that they seem to be as glistening as glass. That king did not use brick from poverty; for he was choke-full of revenues, being ruler of all Caria.

[11] Acumen autem eius et sollertiam ad aedificia paranda sic licet considerare. @#$% esset enim natus Mylasis et animadvertisset Halicarnasso locum naturaliter esse munitum, idoneum portum emporiumque utile, ibi sibi domum constituit. is autem locus est theatri curvaturae similis. itaque in imo secundum portum forum est constitutum; per mediam autem altitudinis curvaturam praecinctionemque platea ampla latitudine facta, in qua media Mausoleum ita egregiis operibus est factum, ut in septem spectaculis nominetur. in summa arce media Martis fanum habens statuam colossicam acrolithon nobili manu Leocharis factam. hanc autem statuam alii Leocharis, alii Timothei putant esse. in cornu autem summo dextro Veneris et Mercurii fanum ad ipsum Salmacidis fontem.

As for his skill and ingenuity as a builder, they may be seen from what follows. He was born at Melassa, but recognizing the natural advantages of Halicarnassus as a fortress, and seeing that it was suitable as a trading centre and that it had a good harbour, he fixed his residence there. The place had a curvature like that of the seats in a theatre. On the lowest tier, along the harbour, was built the forum. About half-way up the curving slope, at the point where the curved cross-aisle is in a theatre, a broad wide street was laid out, in the middle of which was built the Mausoleum, a work so remarkable that it is classed among the Seven Wonders of the World. At the top of the hill, in the centre, is the fane of Mars, containing a colossal acrolithic statue by the famous hand of Leochares. That is, some think that this statue is by Leochares, others by Timotheus. At the extreme right of the summit is the fane of Venus and Mercury, close to the spring of Salmacis.

As you can see, it isn't very detailed, so you'll need secondary literature. When briefly looking around, I stumbled upon http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Europe/Turkey/_Periods/Greek/_Texts/LETGKB/Mausoleum*.html, a digitization of a publication from a century ago, which, although old, is quite helpful in that it describes in detail possible interpretations and contains numerous drawings, including on arrange the columns in a rectangle and how to do the capitals of the columns in the corners.

Also note that the mausoleum was rectangular, not square.

By the way, it seems yours is not the first mausoleum in 0 A.D.: `art/actors/structures/carthaginians/mausoleum.xml`:

Spoiler

[Stan`]

2 minutes ago, Nescio said:

By the way, it seems yours is not the first mausoleum in 0 A.D.: `art/actors/structures/carthaginians/mausoleum.xml`:

This one is different though.

Anyway if people feel like using my reconstitution, they are free to do so using the mod above. I might try to do another one considering your sources in the future, but as I said, the goal was to do the mace wonder, and that building isn't elligible anyway.

[Nescio]

1 minute ago, Stan` said:

This one is different though.

Anyway if people feel like using my reconstitution, they are free to do so using the mod above. I might try to do another one considering your sources in the future, but as I said, the goal was to do the mace wonder, and that building isn't elligible anyway.

As a Macedonian Wonder it isn't appropiate. It would be great to have all Seven Wonders of the World in 0 A.D., though.

[Stan`]

2 minutes ago, Nescio said:

As a Macedonian Wonder it isn't appropiate.

Would the suggestion @wowgetoffyourcellphone made above work? (the palla palace)

[Nescio]

Just now, Stan` said:

Would the suggestion @wowgetoffyourcellphone made above work? (the palla palace)

Pella. Yes, that would be great. Didn't @Anaxandridas ho Skandiates start a forum thread for that some time ago?

[Nescio]

4 hours ago, Stan` said:

mausoleum.zip 4.03 MB · 1 download

It's enormous:

Spoiler

 

[Stan`]

45m high

[Nescio]

Anyway, yours is a great start, having it in the public folder would be nice, with some modifications:

• move the door to the short side, the one facing the chariot
• nine columns on the short sides, eleven on the long sides, for a total of 36 (instead of eight on each, for a total of 28)
• remove those round golden things from the columns
• correct the capitals of the corner columns
• the pyramid on top had 24 steps, the platform with the chariot had a 4:5 ratio (perhaps 6 m × 7.5 m)
• make the chariot marble, add Artemisia, holding the reins

Basically like this, minus the five levels of sculpture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Mausoleum_at_Halicarnassus_at_the_Bodrum_Museum_of_Underwater_Archaeology.jpg

(I don't know how much work that'll be, I guess it's more than it sounds.)

PS Could you remove “c-u-m” from the forum chat filter? It messes up those Latin quotations. Also “a-s-s” (a wild donkey).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, Nescio said:

It's enormous:

  Hide contents

 

This looks great, but I would scale it down significantly to about 1/3 the current footprint (and scale the doors up accordingly). Yes these structures were incredibly large, but we all have to think about the scale of the game world and scale related to other established structures.

As was said, this should definitely go into the game. I could imagine a capture the Wonder game type where a random Wonder of the World is placed at the center of the map and must be captured by the players to win. 

 

 

[Stan`]

Smaller version,

Fix notes save for the marble chariot, as I did not have a suitable texture for that.

mausoleum.zip

[Lion.Kanzen]

Very nice to destroy it :D.

[Nescio]

8 hours ago, Stan` said:

Smaller version,

Fix notes save for the marble chariot, as I did not have a suitable texture for that.

mausoleum.zip 3.76 MB · 5 downloads

It's already looking better, thank you! Some more things, I hope you don't mind:

• Could you rotate the whole thing by -90° so the default orientation is the same as that of wonders and other structures, and people face the entrance by default?
• The capitals of the corner columns are still wrong. They're supposed to end in a point, like this: 
  Spoiler

  

  

  It's important to get this right, also for other structures that (will) use the Ionic order.
• Chariots tend to carry two people: the charioteer (driver) and the warrior (passenger). In this case, Mausolos and Artemisia; since M. was the more important person, A. would be the one holding the reigns.
• Also remove that circle the chariot is standing on, if possible; it looks out of place.
• As for the files, they shouldn't be Macedonian; if anything, Persian, but it's probably better to place the actor under `global/`, name the template simply `mausoleum.xml`, and leave the <civ> unspecified, so it defaults to gaia. Furthermore, the specific name ought to be simply “Mausōleion” (Μαυσωλεῖον); only in later times did the word gradually become generic; for the generic name, “Tomb of Mausolus” would be a bit more correct, though “Mausoleum at Halicarnassus” probably a bit more recognizable for a modern audience.
• Maybe rename the Carthaginian structure to “tomb” or “cenotaph”?