badosu Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 The idea is to make the *ideal* gameplay display first and if there are stylistic/historical/theming decisions that wfg deems essential we reintegrate or redesign with them in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 9 hours ago, badosu said: Yeah, given we have a specific art theme and style (e.g. delenda est hero rework not chosen to be upstreamed) What now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 hours ago, badosu said: For example the panel on the left is empty (I'm afk so can't test) from what I remember. It's used to show garrisoned units and trying bell but it's totally useless for unit selection. One could be imaginative on how to use that real estate. It's used in mixed selection IIRC. I'm also curious about what hero rework isn't being upstreamed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 The hero portraits? Or am I mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, badosu said: The hero portraits? Or am I mistaken? I committed most of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifa Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 some more thoughts on the central panel UI: 1. the icon when you have a group selected is too small. If you select one spearman there is a big picture, but with the second selected you only got a really small icon with the number on it. Sometimes hard to tell what unit it actually is. Also it's quite uncommon that you select more than 3 or 4 different types of units at the same time, so the space could get better used. The number is too small too. 2. It takes way to many steps to get to know the stats for a group of units. You would have to deselect them, then reselect a single unit 3. The space under the buildings is unused. When you choose a tree the right panel is gone, but when you choose a unit that can't build anything there is just a blank space, is that intented? 4. It's not possible to change the location or the size of the minimap, i don't know if this is desired. or switching between types of thematical maps (eg for specific resources) 5. stats are missing. Especially the stats for formations. I don't know about the status quo but if they gonna be implemented, there should be an information about how they affect the units stats 6. Also It would be nice to know the number of idle workers. Similar to the new numbers for the resources. And maybe a notification when a large number gets idle at once (like when the resource is all used). But i guess that's a different thing apart from that it's actually quite intuitive and gives you all the information needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, nifa said: The space under the buildings is unused. When you choose a tree the right panel is gone, but when you choose a unit that can't build anything there is just a blank space, is that intented? I think so. The layout is fixed so the ui elements don't switch size all the time if less information is presented (which is a good thing). 5 minutes ago, nifa said: 1. the icon when you have a group selected is too small. If you select one spearman there is a big picture, but with the second selected you only got a really small icon with the number on it. Sometimes hard to tell what unit it actually is. Also it's quite uncommon that you select more than 3 or 4 different types of units at the same time, so the space could get better used. The number is too small too. This could be changed, however spectators can select more types of units which could (theoretically) overflow the panel. Also one can select units and buildings. One could double the size of the unit widget when not in spectator mode. 7 minutes ago, nifa said: apart from that it's actually quite intuitive and gives you all the information needed If you think this is good enough we don't need to bother with it for now. Only the window patch is already a worthy improvement (though imo quick access to readable stats has a high priority). We can iterate later. 2 hours ago, Stan` said: I committed most of them That's awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 @nifa @badosu just putting it here that in newest mod HC there are new user-interfaces as seen here https://www.moddb.com/mods/hyrule-conquest/images/user-interfaces#imagebox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifa Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) Like this? @badosu what's your opinion on this? I moved the player name and the units name to the top, the health bar below the unit icon and added a few stats devided with the slashes Edited January 8, 2021 by nifa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifa Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, badosu said: This could be changed, however spectators can select more types of units which could (theoretically) overflow the panel. Also one can select units and buildings. One could double the size of the unit widget when not in spectator mode. I think the best system would be to change the icon size with the number of selected units: 1-6 units of any type -> big icons for each more than 6 units of 1 type -> big icon with a number more than 6 units of more types -> icons getting smaller the more types of units there are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifa Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) before after I think the visibility is much better for groups up to 6 units like this, eg you can see the health for each one like this for larger groups Edited January 7, 2021 by nifa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, nifa said: 1. the icon when you have a group selected is too small. If you select one spearman there is a big picture, but with the second selected you only got a really small icon with the number on it. Sometimes hard to tell what unit it actually is. Also it's quite uncommon that you select more than 3 or 4 different types of units at the same time, so the space could get better used. Uncommon does not mean it never happens. I for one like to group all my unit-producing structures together, and sometimes I select both units and structures simultaneously. 1 hour ago, nifa said: 2. It takes way to many steps to get to know the stats for a group of units. You would have to deselect them, then reselect a single unit A very good point! 1 hour ago, nifa said: 3. The space under the buildings is unused. When you choose a tree the right panel is gone, but when you choose a unit that can't build anything there is just a blank space, is that intented? It's intentional, yes: resources can't move, form formations, build structures, train units, research technologies, etc., therefore they don't have the right and left selection panels. In contrast, (many) units can, therefore they have those panels, even though they're occassionally empty. 1 hour ago, nifa said: 4. It's not possible to change the location or the size of the minimap, i don't know if this is desired. or switching between types of thematical maps (eg for specific resources) This is not trivial. Most of the GUI is defined in XML or JavaScript, however, the minimap is partially generated by th C++ source code, complicating things. 1 hour ago, nifa said: 5. stats are missing. Especially the stats for formations. I don't know about the status quo but if they gonna be implemented, there should be an information about how they affect the units stats I believe the general idea behind 0 A.D.'s current session GUI design is not to swamp players with too many numbers. Whether an unit is an archer or javelineer is more important information than whether e.g. their attack damage is 6.9 or 7.1. 1 hour ago, nifa said: 6. Also It would be nice to know the number of idle workers. Similar to the new numbers for the resources. And maybe a notification when a large number gets idle at once (like when the resource is all used). But i guess that's a different thing That shouldn't be too difficult to implement. You could have a look at the gatherer counts patch (D3155/rP24357). I don't know if someone is already working on an idle worker counter( @Freagarach?). 1 hour ago, badosu said: That's awesome! A lot more is done than what's advertised on the forums. I recommend playing the svn development version from time to time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nifa Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Nescio said: Uncommon does not mean it never happens. I for one like to group all my unit-producing structures together, and sometimes I select both units and structures simultaneously. 9 minutes ago, Nescio said: Whether an unit is an archer or javelineer is more important information the icon of groups is too small to see that imo. Big icons for up to 6 unit types and the current icon size for more units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Nescio said: A lot more is done than what's advertised on the forums. Ditto for playtesting efforts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badosu Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 hours ago, nifa said: Big icons for up to 6 unit types and the current icon size for more units? Can be done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 12 hours ago, Nescio said: This is not trivial. Most of the GUI is defined in XML or JavaScript, however, the minimap is partially generated by th C++ source code, complicating things. Changing the location is doable (Hyrule did it) also @wowgetoffyourcellphone maybe ? I believe nani has a zoom option for the minimap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 17 hours ago, nifa said: 4. It's not possible to change the location or the size of the minimap, i don't know if this is desired. or switching between types of thematical maps (eg for specific resources) 3 hours ago, Stan` said: Changing the location is doable (Hyrule did it) also @wowgetoffyourcellphone maybe ? I believe nani has a zoom option for the minimap? Yes, the size and location are defined in XML and can be easily edited (see gui/session/session.xml line 75). However, being able to resize or move the minimap around in game is more complicated, as is “switching between different thematical maps”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Nescio said: Yes, the size and location are defined in XML and can be easily edited (see gui/session/session.xml line 75). <object size="50%-512 100%-200 50%-312 100%"> Very confusing. I think it means the object starts 512 pixels from center, then goes to 312 pixels from center (making it 200 pixels wide), then it goes 200 pixels up from the bottom? The percentages trip me up too. Edited January 8, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: <object size="50%-512 100%-200 50%-312 100%"> Very confusing. I think it means the object starts 512 pixels from center, then goes to 312 pixels from center (making it 200 pixels wide), then it goes 200 pixels up from the bottom? The percentages trip me up too. Yes, exactly! The object size numbers are left, top, right, bottom. The percentages and relative numbers are necessary because not everyone has the same resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: <object size="50%-512 100%-200 50%-312 100%"> Very confusing. Maybe we should have a wiki page with examples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freagarach Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 17 hours ago, Nescio said: is already working on an idle worker counter( @Freagarach?) Not me ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraitii Posted January 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 I have an interest in this, which ought to be obvious given I started this topic in the first place I've not found the time to work on this in ages, but it's something I'm seriously considering for the future, because I very much dislike our current presentation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 @nifa, just checking, you know there is a “detailed tooltips” setting (under game options), don't you? On 05/01/2021 at 7:21 PM, badosu said: Also. Would be nice to show how techs and auras are modifying stats. I notice most players can't check if enemy units are upgraded or not. Which is crucial information for taking engagements Isn't this fixed in the svn development version? On 07/01/2021 at 12:11 AM, nifa said: fyi this is how it looks in Cossacks: I have fond memories of Cossacks! In my opinion more people should give it a try, and look less at Age of Empires. On 07/01/2021 at 1:43 AM, badosu said: For example the panel on the left is empty (I'm afk so can't test) from what I remember. It's used to show garrisoned units and trying bell but it's totally useless for unit selection. One could be imaginative on how to use that real estate. The left selection panel also hosts formations and stances, as well as barter (when a market is selected). On 07/01/2021 at 1:50 AM, badosu said: The idea is to make the *ideal* gameplay display first and if there are stylistic/historical/theming decisions that wfg deems essential we reintegrate or redesign with them in mind. Feel free to ignore what we currently have, I'd welcome a completely new interface designed from scratch. However, keep in mind it should work for 1024×768 and 1280×720 screens as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted January 9, 2021 Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Nescio said: Feel free to ignore what we currently have, I'd welcome a completely new interface designed from scratch. However, keep in mind it should work for 1024×768 and 1280×720 screens as well. I support this. I think we can do better. Maybe not for A24 but for the subsequent releases. Hyrule now has an interesting feature that also changes the theme depending on the civ Although their UI is looking more and more like totalwar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted January 10, 2021 Report Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Nescio said: However, keep in mind it should work for 1024×768 and 1280×720 screens as well SHOOT ME NOW Edited January 10, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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