av93 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) 1.Suggestion (concept)Let's start another suggestion thread. Hoping that would profit someone. This time is about heroes (very underused unit, mainly to kill sieges ) so let's go.Currently, heroes have 4 variables:- Avaliability (where and when you can train him)- Cost- Unit power (Is not the same Elephant than Spear hero)- BonusSo my point is to, instead of making each hero a concret bonus, let's take a specific number more general bonus and make combinations. For example:- Think about 10 classes of total bonus/kind of Heroes- Each civ get a combination of 3 heroesIn more concrete way (examples)- Champion: No real bonus other than stronger heroe unit stat- Governor: Economical heroe that with a boost of 15% bonus to nearby working units- General: Nearby battalion or units in formation get bonus on stats- Tactician: Bonus training a specific kind of unit (can be global while alive or nearby barracks)- Naval Commander: Bonus to boat when garrisoned- King: Ability to train personal guard in battle (limited to a small number)- Leader: Special activable ability (throw a spear, a war yell, etc)- Savior: Supporting heroe relating tech, healing- Rebel: Gives ambush ability to nearby units- Conqueror: Bonus to conquering rate to nearby unitsIt could be some specific traits (like the unit trained of the king hero or the warrior ability) but the goal is to keep it simple for easier balanceSo civ 1 could have champion, governor and general, another one could have warrior, champion and naval commander, etc.2. Current Design DocumentSummary of the current design document Reveal hidden contents Athens heroes Reveal hidden contents -ThemistoclesBonus: When garrisoned 20% fast ship. 20% Cheaper boats during lifespan-PericlesBonus: Faster building rate in his vision. Cheaper temples during lifespan.-IphicratesBonus: 15% speed and armor to units when added to a formation. All Peltasts +15% speedBritons heroes Reveal hidden contents -CaractacusType: Infantry SpearmanBonus: All Units +15% speed-CunobelinType: Infantry SwordmanBonus: Let all units heal at 1 HP per second-BoudiccaType: Javelin ChariotBonus: +5 Attack, +2 Capture and +25% Speed for Champion UnitCarthaginians heroes Reveal hidden contents -Hannibal BarcaType: ElephantBonus: 15% attack to allies in his vision. Can see changes in FOW (new buildings, resources being depleted)-Hamilcar BarcaType: Cavalry swordmanBonus: All units 15% to walk and run (not to charge)-MaharbalType: Javelin and spearman cavalryBonus: +50% Cavalry charge attack in his vision rangeGaul heroes Reveal hidden contents -BritomartosType: SpearmanBonus: Gathering rates increased with +15% during his lifetime-BrennosType: SwordmanBonus: +10 Metal loot for every enemy unit killed-VercengetorixType: Cavalry SwordmanBonus: 2 Attack and +1 Capture for all units within his auraIberians heroes Reveal hidden contents -ViriatoType:Bonus: "Tactica Guerrilla"-KarosType:Bonus: "Tactica Guerrilla"-IndibilType:Bonus: "Tactica Guerrilla"Macedonian heroes Reveal hidden contents -Philip II of Macedon.Type:Bonus: Increased Attack for Champion Units-Alexander the GreatType:Bonus: 25% territory effect when living. 20% attack bonus himself agaist heroes-Demetrius the BesiegerType:Bonus: Increased Range and Attack for Siege EnginesMauryan heroes Reveal hidden contents -Chandragupta MauryaType: ElephantBonus: Not documented/TBD-Ashoka the GreatType: Chariot archerBonus: Ability of building pillar of Ashoka (effect TBD)-Acharya ChanakyaType:Bonus: Empowering ability (50% training time to the building). Give oprtunity to research 4 special abilitiesPersians heroes Reveal hidden contents -Cyrus The GreatType: Cav javelinBonus: Aura increases attack damage of nearby cavalry units- Darius The GreatType:Bonus: Aura increases movement speed of nearby units- Xerxes IType:Bonus: Aura accelerates the Gather Rate and Build Rate of nearby econ unitsPtolomies heroes Reveal hidden contents - Ptolemy I "SaviorType: ElephantBonus: "Hero" Aura (Decreases build time for nearby structures.)/Mercenaries cost -50% during his lifetime- Ptolemy IV "Father LovingType:Bonus: Juggernaut train limit raised to 5 during his lifetime/Egyptian Pikemen have greater stats within vision of him- Cleopatra VIIType:Bonus: Increased hero aura bonuses and stats for allied heroes within her range; decreased stats for enemy heroes within range/ Patriot bonus TBDRoman heroes Reveal hidden contents - Quintus Fabius Maximus “Cunctator”Type: Cav spearmanBonus: Within range of him, all of the player's Roman soldiers gain +3 armor levels of all types- Marcus Claudius MarcellusType: Cav swordmanBonus: Roman infantry have +20% greater attack within his aura- Scipio AfricanusType: Cav swordmanBonus: Ability to buy enemies with metalSeleucid heroes Reveal hidden contents -Seleucus I "The VictorType: ElephantBonus: War Elephant attack and speed +20% within his vision- Antiochus III "The Great"Type: Cavalry SpearmanBonus: All cavalry trained during his lifetime gain +2 levels of all armour types. These cavalrymen retain their armour bonuses even after Antiochus is dead- Antiochus IV "The Righteous"Type: CAv swordmanBonus: give a bonus (x2) to infantry against buildings, siege engines, and ships. When alive, capturing is 25% fasterSpartans heroes Reveal hidden contents -Leonidas IType: SpearmanBonus: Nearby friendly Hoplites and Spartiates have +20% attack and +10% armor- BrasidasType: Swordman with javelin secondary attackBonus: Nearby Helot Skirmishers have increased armour and attack- Agis IIIType: SpearmanBonus: Triple health3.SketchClassify all heroes with a historical view into one category isn't really easy, cause a lot of them were generals, but also tacticians, leaders, kings, and warriors. With this concept, only a few civs overlap their heroes. Reveal hidden contents Themistocles: Naval commanderPericles: GovernorIphicrates: GeneralCaractacus: RebelCunobelin: SaviorBoudicca: GeneralHannibal Barca: TacticianHamilcar Barca: GeneralMaharbal: LeaderBritomartos: RebelBrennos: LeaderVercengetorix: GeneralViriato: RebelKaros: RebelIndibil: RebelPhilip: GeneralAlexander: ConquerorDemetrius: TacticianChandragupta ChampionAShoka: KingAcharya: SaviorCyrus: TacticianDarius: KingXerxes: GovernorPtolemy I: SaviorPtolemy IV: Naval commanderCleopatra: LeaderQuintus Fabius: GeneralMarcus Claudius: LeaderScipio: ConquerorSeleucus I: ConquerorAntiochus III: TacticianAntiochus IV: GeneralLeonidas I: GeneralBrasidas: TacticianAgis III: ChampionSome ideas about special civs features:- A civ with an emphasis on heroes that allow a secondary class.- Iberians could train two heroes instead of one. With the fact that all iberian heroes have the same Rebel class, this would encorauge a gameplay based on ambushes Edited November 17, 2015 by av93 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Sounds Empire Earth ( 1 and2) more some of rise of nations. I like the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I actually kind of like this simplified view for hero. Maybe have standard list of auras and hero can have any 2 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karamel Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 To start with, because I don't really know the heroes auras, can you make a list of current heroes and their would be class? Even if it's not precisely the current bonus to see if there can be some classes to sort out?This is just a suggestion to have a list of hero classes not from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 The only issue with this proposal is that it could detract from the historical flavour of the heroes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Finally, I finished the summary of the current design document. Could be useful to devs, as well. Next step that I may do is trying to blend the DD with my suggestion. Edited November 12, 2015 by av93 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Udapted all heroes with the auras.This is my sketch, inspired by the current DD, with some tweaks. Classify all heroes with a historical view into one category isn't really easy, cause a lot of them were generals, but also tacticians, leaders, kings, and warriors. With this concept, only a few civs overlap their heroes.Sketch: Reveal hidden contents Themistocles: Naval commanderPericles: GovernorIphicrates: GeneralCaractacus: RebelCunobelin: SaviorBoudicca: GeneralHannibal Barca: TacticianHamilcar Barca: GeneralMaharbal: LeaderBritomartos: RebelBrennos: LeaderVercengetorix: GeneralViriato: RebelKaros: RebelIndibil: RebelPhilip: GeneralAlexander: ConquerorDemetrius: TacticianChandragupta ChampionAShoka: KingAcharya: SaviorCyrus: TacticianDarius: KingXerxes: GovernorPtolemy I: SaviorPtolemy IV: Naval commanderCleopatra: LeaderQuintus Fabius: GeneralMarcus Claudius: LeaderScipio: ConquerorSeleucus I: ConquerorAntiochus III: TacticianAntiochus IV: GeneralLeonidas I: GeneralBrasidas: TacticianAgis III: Champion* means not sureSome ideas about special civs features:- A civ with an emphasis on heroes that allow a secondary class.- Iberians could train two heroes instead of one. With the fact that all iberian heroes have the same Rebel class, this would encorauge a gameplay based on ambushes Edited November 17, 2015 by av93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 What difference do you make between champion and general Else i think its the way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) It's explained in first post. Champion heroes get bonus on stats and Generals give bonus to nearby units.Edit: I rewrote the Champion heroe entry to avoid confusion. Edited November 17, 2015 by av93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Ah right sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karamel Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Nice start, seing the list it may ease a lot the learning curve. For those who are lazy to search for the design document (or eager to do something else), could you add a line or two to justify the class choice? Mostly from historic facts I suppose.I know for Pericles and Bouddica, not sure for Philip II (which I see more as a reformist) and Alexander (more as a conqueror). That way we can agree or disagree on your choices more easily. Also a link to the design document page relative to the hero may be a plus (you can consider other people are lazy ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted November 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) The choices are based on the current DD, so the thing that I have done is fitting the old bonus (that you can check in the summary) into my new categories. I have made some changes, trying to avoid overlapping. Also I tryed that all "barbarian" (don't like the word) civs get a rebel heroeBTW, conqueror was a class that I didn't think about it. The 10th class. Edited November 17, 2015 by av93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palaxin Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I like this idea, too.As Karamel stated it would be still important to match the hero classes as close as possible to historical context. At least if you want to give your proposal a chance to be included in the main game (and not in a mod). It would be nice if we could get some dev's opinion - otherwise you can perhaps create a ticket if you are confident with your work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) On 17/11/2015 at 6:41 PM, av93 said: Also I tryed that all "barbarian" (don't like the word) civs get a rebel heroeDo not be upset using this word. In historical context, which the game is use, is that barbarian just mean a civ that is not Greek or Roman or Graeco-Roman. Modern context is just modern context. This game base on history (for instance, game use older words in a lot of case instead of newer ones). Edited November 22, 2015 by wowgetoffyourcellphone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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